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Nikolausz

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Posts posted by Nikolausz

    11 minutes ago, homodelphinius said:

     

    Btw we need TELESIN type housings that are afforable to include extended battery packs for various applications (i.e, BRUVS for long time - these are baited video structures to monitor the fish diversity of a certain habitat).

     

    We have some (https://www.backscatter.com/Anglerfish-GoPro-HERO9-HERO10-HERO11-Underwater-Housing-with-Battery-Plate-AFCL-GP9-F570) but are way expensive in comparison to the TELESIN styles.

    Way overpriced. This one is more affordable but still expensive:

    https://actionpro.de/produkt/t-housing-aluminiumgehaeuse-h10-power-f-gopro-hero-10-und-hero-9/

     

    I agree that a GoPro is so affordable that many people just consider why not to take one for the dive. Really beginner divers with no experience in film making. My colleague is planning to do his first dive course in Egypt in May and he asked me whether to buy a GoPro (I try to convince not). It's also free to post garbage footage on youtube, so it's full with them. But it's not because of the quality of the GoPro and other action cameras but due to the "camera operators" and lack of skills and knowledge (and taste).

    On the other hand I know that even big productions, "blue chip" wildlife movies use GoPro cameras and not just for B-rolls.

    Finally the quality is really not that bad in my opinion, and 20 years ago we have just dreamed about such level.

    • Like 4

    Posted

    Just few days after I ordered the GoPro Hero 12 camera to replace my aging Yi 4K+, Insta announced the new flagship camera, the Insta360 Ace Pro. The youtube is full with glowing reviews and comparisons to GoPro but only few available about its underwater usage. I'm still testing my GP12 but so far I think I made a good decision.

    These are the main features of the new pretender:

    1) Larger sensor. It has a 1/1.3" sensor compared to 1/1.9" sensor in GP. It has better low light performance, so it might be used in caves, deep  or night dives. Daylight situation I haven't observed much difference in comparison videos. However, one negative aspect of the larger sensor is the minimum focus distance is 40 cm with Ace Pro compared to 30 cm with GP12. In my opinion the close focus capability is very important underwater, so it's a tradeoff. The DJI Osmo Action 4 has the same larger sensor and at the beginning even vloggers complained about the close focus problem (unsharp face in the case of hand held camera), which was solved in later production models.

    2) 8K 24 FPS and Clarity zoom to crop in without much loss of quality. I don't think it's really relevant underwater, especially that you can't activate the clarity zoom in the housing. Despite the Leica lens I don't think that it can create a 8K resolution behind a flat port through 40-50 cm water.

    Both cameras can do 4K 120 FPS, which is fine.

    3) AI chip. It promises better white balance and improved noise reduction. According to the reviews it's a fast and very responsive camera. The low light performance, also thanks to the larger sensors, is way better than GP12. But be realistic, for serious low light work you will still need a full frame (or some new generation APS-C) camera.

    4) Ace Pro has a better battery life (all tests concluded that) and a faster charging option. A real advantage here.  22 minutes vs 2 hours charging time in Ace pro and GP12, respectively.

    5) Software support. I use Insta Studio a lot for my One X2 360 degree camera and it's really good. According to online reviewers it's better than the GoPro Quik.

    6) Few other gimmicky features: Flip up screen. It can be useful for vloggers but not for me, because I wouldn't use it without underwater housing (although it's water resistant down to 10m according to the company). With the AI chip you can create some cool re-styled AI-enhanced short (4 sec) video clips (AI warp) or can remove selfie stick easily. You can also do some basic editing of video clips in the camera, which is not really relevant underwater (I think). Ace Pro can be controlled by Apple Watch or some Garmin devices, but not underwater, of course. Magnetic mount, nice but not relevant underwater.

     

    Functions that are similar or equal:

    1) Stabilisation is  very important in the case of hand held footage and for long time GoPro was the real leader here but both Insta and DJI are catching up. I haven't seen any thorough underwater test so far, but based on the typical boring running in the park videos they are all very good today.

    2) Picture quality under good light conditions. It's hard to tell the difference, sometimes GP12 is better, while other in other case Ace Pro is the winner.

    3) HDR mode, flat profile. Both have some options, HDR is slightly better in ACE Pro (based on above water tests).

     

    Why I don't regret my GoPro camera purchase?

    1) Ace Pro is more expensive (450 Euro vs 350 Euro (was on sale before Christmas))

    2) High quality underwater accessories for GoPro. I'm planning to buy a quality wide angle wet lens for my camera, and I can chose from AOI UWL-03(this will be mypick most probably) or INON UFL G-140 SD. Also high quality more lens element close-focus lenses are available for GoPro but not for Ace Pro. There are more options to buy a dome port fitting to GP12 for split videos.

    3) 10-bit video mode offers a better quality of colours and hopefully it will solve the banding (in blue background) problem of old action cameras.

    4) GoPro Labs is an official beta platform, which extends the camera capabilities beyond its stock features. It's really fantastic. Besides increasing the bitrate and other not default supported parameters, the coolest thing is that you can create QR codes with various set ups (Low light, fast action, Slow motion etc) and you can take these pictures on laminated sheets with you in your BCD pocket. Just show the QR code to the camera and it will take over the settings. It's a really nice feature. It happened few times with me that my camera had the wrong settings (time lapse from the previous day) and it was too late to turn back or change it underwater. So with GP12 I can have a fast changes of many favourite settings.

     

    So who is the new king? Actually Insta360 has a 1-inch sensor module with Leica lens, which offers even better picture quality on paper. However, nobody really use this camera underwater and it's probably due to the marginal image quality increase at a hefty price and the even worse close focus capability. I think, for underwater usage, GoPro has still some advantages, but I think the next DJI Osmo Action will dethrone both GoPro and Insta360 in the future. This is just my prediction based on the the DJI Osmo Pocket 3. If DJI implement the 1-inch sensor with auto focus (current action cameras have fixed focus) and some kind of advanced image stabilisation (not necessarily gimbal) I think that will be a game changer. Until then, I think either with GoPro or Insta, or even with DJI Osmo Action, you cannot go wrong.

    What do you think, who the king is on the action camera throne?

     

    • Thanks 2

    8 hours ago, bghazzal said:

    Nice, thanks - but it's a bayonet system, right? The specs read QRS-2 Bayonet System, which mean that any 52/55/67mm threaded filter would need to be made to work with a bayonet mount first.

    Screen Shot 2024-01-12 at 9.07.19.png

    It's a bayonet system to add either AOI or Inon lenses, but the filter is unique, a kind of slot panel. So you can't use standard filters with it.

    • Thanks 1

    3 hours ago, hellhole said:

     

    somemore mention that the inon and aoi lens can be use on either system... i have not tired it yet..

     

    i think they should all be similar.. as its bayonet style

    The Backscatter lens is just a rebranded AOI lens. The mount is unique in a way that special slot filters (not screw on filters) can be used. As far as I figured out from the descriptions.

    On 1/10/2024 at 3:56 AM, hellhole said:

    to cut away a little bit on the wife angle stuff

     

    i think that this M67 filter adapter from inon is very interesting if you add the 67mm variable filter that they have

    http://www.inon.jp/products/gopro/hero/sdfrontmaskhero9.html

     

    i did it a few times, although for sure its not as wide, but it helps with the white balance.

     

    i wish now, that they can combine these 2 things that they have.. put a smaller variable filter before the wide angle lens!!!

    Actually the Backscatter version of AOI adapter allows the usage of filters:

    https://www.backscatter.com/Backscatter-Sharp-Wide-Lens-Pro-Package

     

    My first action camera was a basic GoPro (not the black version) and instead of upgrading it to a newer version I went for Yi 4K+, which was really a good contender that time for half price of GoPro, with same or better quality (4K 60 fps was earlier introduced by Yi than GoPro). Xiaomi stopped producing this camera and the sell out price was really good (around 100 Euro) so I have 3 of them. 

    2 years ago I purchased a Insta360 One RS and recently a GP12. I even did a recent static comparison:

     

    When I compare these new cameras to my old Yi4k+ footage I can't find too much difference in image quality. I would still use the Yi cameras further but the batteries are getting worse and worse (20-30 mins filming) and even newly ordered after market batteries are produced probably years ago, so they're also not that good. Actually I modified all my Yi cameras (changed lens, modified focus) so I will still use them for specific purposes.

    Another reason I wanted to have a new GoPro is the availability of accessories. It was very difficult to find a dome port for Yi and not to mention quality attachment lenses such as INON or AOI wide angle wet lenses.

    Stabilisation and WB improved a lot in new generation cameras, but they still perform poor in low light.

    I still have to check 10-bit, high bit rate. Hopefully it will solve my banding issues with the old Yi cameras.

    In addition, I have just explored GoPro Labs and it's fantastic. I'm planning to create many QR codes with the most important settings, so I can change the camera settings underwater just by showing the codes to the camera.

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1

    3 hours ago, fruehaufsteher2 said:

    Hi Nikolausz,

     

    Thanks for your help!

    Actually both INON and AOI seem not to support splitshots, but could provide narrower focusing and better image quality. The Telesin port has a diameter of 6" (18cm) - what seems to be the lowest size for splits.

     

    But maybe worth a try.

    The inon supports split shots but you have to buy an extra ring. "Split Easy for UFL-G140 SD"

    http://www.inon.jp/products/gopro/uflg140sd.html

    On 12/28/2023 at 9:18 AM, fruehaufsteher2 said:

    My wife bought the Hero12 black and a really cheap (40.-) Domeport from „telesin“, rated down to 15m. Feels little plastic. 

    https://www.telesin-store.com/dome-port-c0027

    What makes me totally unhappy is that she took pictures that really look nice. Really. 

    Is there a stable solution also? Meaning small dome for GoPro that will survive more than 5-10 dives and more than 15m? 

    The best option is the Inon UFL-G140 SD Underwater Semi-fisheye Conversion Lens, which corrects the underwater view from from 94° to 140°. It's a water contact lens, so you can't really use for half-half pictures (as your example above). There is a workaround to apply a special O-ring (and contact the lens underwater.

    There is a new cheaper alternative, the AOI UWL-03 Wide Angle Lens (almost half price) that has a similar quality.

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1

    21 hours ago, Davide DB said:

    It's what we made until now. We have 4 GP11 and we leave them until the battery dies. At 4K@50p (everything disabled) they last about 1 hour. Now we are evaluating to buy a digipower re-fuel casel to get 3 hours at least.

    These are not normal trouts they are badass trouts 🙂  Nobody was able to film their spawning so far. They are super suspicious: they disappear even if you get 5
    meter close to the riverbank. We were only able to film them with gopros left in the water. We also tried with two Panasonic GH5 camouflaged with fake leaves without much results because they seem to be disturbed by such a large object left in the water. Now we have a lot of footage but no spawning!

    I feel your frustration. I also observed that even 2 action cameras next to each other distract a bit the fish. Even an Insta360 One X2 in a housing is too large and the double dome is very suspicious, not to mention a bigger system camera (I use sony A6400) in a housing. 

    • Haha 1

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