Sony HDV dropouts

As far as i can tell the only dropped frames on the Z come when it goes to sleep and you hit record to turn it back on... you can see the tape rell move a sec and you get a dead space on the tape...

The way to avoid this is not to let the camera fall asleep....

It does not happen when you are filming something...

I think what mark is talking about is compression artifacts. When panning very quickly, the camera will not be in focus and detail artifacting is possible since the engine is trying to keep up with the scene. But nothing short of a super fast twist or extreme MTV style shoot will make it happen.

Mike,

So what you're sayin' is that you have to be recording the whole time to avoid the camera going to sleep? By "going to sleep" I take it you mean going into standby mode? Do you have to hit record for it to return to "active" mode? Is that just a feature with the Phenom or does everyone have that issue? Input from others on this would be nice.

The artifacting problem I was talking about is exactly that on fast pans. This topic was under scrutiny by some top side shooters where obviously they are as free as they like to make very fast motions with the camera. Due to our chosen workplace and medium I would find it hard to achieve such speed with pans etc.

Mark.

Mike, it sounds like you need to run a head cleaner, and maybe to change tape brands. My FX1 has had no drop-outs or glitches since I switched to Sony DVM63HD tapes. I have read on HDV camera forums that the FX1/Z1 cameras work better after a break-in period. This seemed to be the case for me as well. When I started shooting my FX1 in November 2004 using TDK DVM60 tapes, I would experience frequent 1-3 frame glitches and occasional 15 frame dropouts. After running about 10 TDK tapes, I cleaned the heads again and started using the Sony tapes. Everything has worked excellent for the last 25+ Sony DVM63HD tapes I've shot, with zero drop-outs or glitches. There are no problems letting the camera go into standby and back to record. The issue of artifacting on fast pans is completely blown out of proportion. Just try the camera and see for yourself. Any camera footage will look like crap if you zoom in and whip the camera around too fast. For me it has never been a problem either above or underwater. Side note: The TDK DVM60 tapes worked excellent in my TRV-900 with zero drop-outs.

No Dan and no Mark...

I do use the Sony HDV tapes, in fact they are the only tapes that have been in the camera...ever... and is well broken in by now as yes i do shoot video underwater on pretty much a daily basis....

When you stop record it goes into Stby.

After 5 mins in stby mode if you do not mess with it the stby symbol then disappears... that is what i call sleep mode, not stby mode....

With the Z when you then hit record it takes a few seconds to start up again....the Z is rather slow for that compared to other cameras i have found.... it is in that situation that you get the slight pause on the playback... however tis easy to avoid this... keep your camera in stby, don't go into sleep....

Dan, i suggest you get your Z and put it on the desk beside you... put it in Camera mode and leave it for 5 mins till the stby icon disappears... then hit record.. watch the timecode and let me know what it does....

See if it rolls a sec or two just like mine... would be interested to know if its a camera glitch

Interesting. Thanks for clearing that up Mike.

Anyone else experiencing this? Dan maybe the test Mike suggested would be prudent. Please post findings.

Mark.

Mike,

Just been speaking with an engineer regarding this potential problem. Well he's a retired engineer from the Beeb but still keeps up to date on cameras etc. He had the same kind of issue with the A1 then had a relatively straight forward solution.

Take a look at your menu settings and see if you can extend the time option before the camera switches to standby mode. He looked into his menu setting for camera options and there it was. Seeing as its a Sony maybe that option exists for the Z1 too.

I would suggest setting it to an hour or the nearest increment thereafter if possible. It may chew up a bit of the battery but it could save a vital shot. Give it a bash and see if thats the problem. No harm in trying.

Cheers,

Mark.

<_<

Mike, it's 3 minutes on Z/A 1 power save modes. 5 minutes was the "older" DV camcorders. All cameras have this mode to save the heads and tape. The more prosumer use cameras didn't go entirely to sleep (EVF down etc) but just stopped the heads and drums from rolling. Turn on the Quick Rec mode to recover from stby mode faster but you'll mess up any shot transitions from the last clip.

Mark, can you ask your friend where in the A1 menu is there the ability to program the delay interval? I've looked through my A1 camera and manual and can't seem to find it anywhere. When I had my Z1, I also couldn't find it. If memory serves, I know the Canon XL series has the ability to turn on and off the power save modes. Don't remember even the PD series being able to turn off the 5 minute drum head off mode.

Can't find it either just the 'Quick rec' mode on page 65... Although this looks like it only works in HDV.

Just experienced the dreaded sleep mode.. Missed a pike snatching a roach at high speed (bugger).

Dive safe

DeanB

I ran the test with my FX1, don't have a Z1. I recorded for a few seconds, hit record stop, and 10 mins. later hit record again. It took about 2 seconds to begin recording. When viewed in Premiere Pro 2.0, there were no glitches in the footage or the timecode. When shooting underwater, I rarely allow the camera to go into standby, as that two second delay seems like an eternity when something pops up out of nowhere. Good luck with your Z, I hope you find the problem soon.

Hi Guys,

Still waiting for a response from the source of the recently posted 'fix'

Will let you all know when comes thru.

Mark

Hi Drew and co and anyone else using these cameras,

Regarding the potential fix to Mikes sleeping Z1 I had a chat with an ex-engineer from the BBC. He's basically still into cameras and has spent a bit of time putting together some white papers on the A1 and HC1. If you want to get a copy, they're in .pdf format, just let me know where to send them.

Sorry Mike but there is seemingly not this fix available for the Z1. It was a misunderstanding on my part and I got my wires a bit mixed. Hope things are resolved or looking better at least.

Mark.

Missing out here....so thought I would put my bit in.

The standby is good as it stops the head spinning on the tape, hence not wearing out the tape and head. It's does take like 10 secs to spin up again, however once you get use to it you soon know to set it going if you think some great action is due.

Also on the Phenom housing, one can hit both trigger buttons to bring it out of that deep sleep mode instead of having to hit record... then it's ready to shoot. So you just do this if you think some good stuff is comming up. Some times the camera will go 20 mins without recording on a dive so its good to know the head is not wearing things out. I like the idea.

Mark, I would be interested in reading that PDF.

You can use my upload page to load it up of you like.

Uploads

We also just had a second Cyclone just miss us again. Now the water is really dirty

Hi Wags,

Thanks for the input on this. I've just uploaded the papers to your site so read away. I've not taken a look at them yet as I'm not planning anything for these cameras. May take a look if boredom (in Palau?) sets in.

Cheers,

Mark.

Read the doc and the findings are interesting. My findings are pretty similar except the shutter speed and sharpness findings. My camera broke down at f2.8 in sharpness not f4 like his. Using Imatest findings the reds tend to be a bit undersaturated and inaccurate. (more like pinkish red although MWB does help a lot in this regard). Gain was also a problem with black stretch on at +3db on.

But Alan definitely spend more time on his evaluation than we did since the A1 isn't going to be of much use for me.

The HC1 parks the tape too after several minutes in standby mode. Normally in standby the heads are still spinning and recording starts instantly. When parked it takes 5-10 secs and stby blinks. In anticipation you can press record twice to spool things back up but it's tough to know UW what it's up to. This is a different feature than the auto shut off delay that powers down the whole camera.