i-ttl, ikelite, D2x and Nexus...

Hi all!

I have some questions I hope some of you might be able to shed some light on.. Over the past 10 years I have fallen in love with the light signature of the SS-50s (now DS-50) that Ike have been making. For macro they are the best for my style.

There has been a lot of talk about DS-50 strobes, Heinrichsweikamp converter, Ikes new cords that no-one knows anything about etc..

The question: Has anyone tried a combination with ikes DS-50, the D2x and a typical 5 pin nikonos connector housing (Nexus, Aquatica etc...) a converter or Ikes cables.. Getting functional i-ttl with the ikes and my d2x is my dream for those rapidly changeing condition shots of mooving targets.

All input is greatly appriciated, anyone in the same situation?

Best wishes from Norway,

Espen

Hi Respen and welcome back to Wetpixel.

Use this page to check strobe compatibility with the Weikamp's converter:

http://www.heinrichsweikamp.net/blitz/indexe.htm

From what I read, the Ike DS50's will not do the D2x TTL routine :-(

Perhaps the Inon Z240's would be a good substitute? Or alternatively, you could ask the folks at Ikelite to make a converter for your housing. They seem to have figured it out for the D200 so hopefully they can do it for the D2x as well.

Cheers

James Wiseman

Hi:

I had hoped Ike might have had at least a prototype of the iTTL sync cord he mentioned he was working on by now.

He said he might have more information on the iTTL sync cord for non-Ikelite housings by the end of April, but no information has been forthcoming. I have been checking the “What’s New†section on the Ikelite website, daily, for even a smidgen of info but no luck so far.

Either they have encountered a design problem with the sync cord, or they have quietly decided not to extend their iTTl support to the D2x. I do hope it’s the former and not the latter case.

Thanks James and Paul,

Browsing through the HW-converter site there is no mention of the loss of preflash with DS-50 strobes. One would guess that the converter functions with such.. The site also uses the name M-ttl, what is this? Lots of questions and I think I'll have to contact HW to find out. It would be a help if they include a factual description about what to expect rather than use internal prefixes without explanation.

I have tried Inon, Subtronic but none of them deliver the light I'm so fond of like Ike's DS-50s.. So Ike if you're reading this; please fix the problem!

Maybe a joint email to Ike for some information is in order.

My other option is to build my own strobes and use Ikes reflector with electronics from Nikon.. Now that sounds a bit troublesome - but I will (if I have to...).

Cheers,

Espen :-)

Hi Espen,

I believe you need to have another look at the Heinrich's website. There is a page where you enter your camera type and it will give you a list of compatible strobes. The strobes need to be able to put out the amount and speed of preflashes, and the D2x and D200 have very rigorous requirements. Just being able to put out a preflash is not enough.

The DS50 is listed as NOT compatible with the D2x and D200

I don't think there is a problem with the DS-50 that Ike needs to fix. He's able to make the DS-50, DS125 and DS200 do iTTL with the Ikelite converter.

Cheers

James

Thanks for your input James,

Am I being completely stupid here? (nothing new there..) :-O

I went to the d2x site and listed in light orange/pink is the DS-50. It says there: manual or M-ttl if available.. What is this M-ttl?

Since the d2x only require one preflash I'm guessing it's a matter of converter to get the DS-50 working with it.. as the prtocol for d200 require 1-2 preflashes and the DS50 is a fast recycling strobe.

If I left u guys with the impression the Ike needs to fix the DS-50, I'm sorry, what I ment was he needs to make a cable or converter that fits into non ikelite housings so that we still can use his wonderful strobes. The other possibility seems a dissection of sea and seas controller... and perhaps a fix for use with ike's.. ?

I'm sure it woud'nt hurt Ikes market to make such an animal.

Cheers,

Espen :-)

I just went to http://www.heinrichsweikamp.net/blitz/indexe.htm and clicked on “Supported Strobesâ€.

Checking the Ikelite section I found the DS50 is highlighted in light green, that means the DS50 as well as the DS200 (for me) is “compatible to many digital cameras, compatible to almost every compact cameraâ€.

When I clicked on “Supported Camerasâ€, I found the D2x is highlighted in dark green which means “converter for direct connection to the camera's hotshoe availableâ€. The chart says the converter supports OEM iTTL with one preflash.

It appears on first glance, camera, converter, and strobe are compatible with each other, However, I do think some ambiguity still exists. Something may have been lost in the translation from German to English.

It would be nice if some of our multilingual friends fluent in German and English could have a look at the German side of the website to confirm the information in the original German language site.

Espen, if the problem you are referring to is a lack of iTTL controller from Ike, then your comments came through loud and clear for me.

Let me know how your discussions work out with Heinrichsweikamp. I am also tempted to try the controller myself, but be aware Aquatica was going to include the controller on some housing models, but decided at the last minute not to due to compatibility issues with different cameras and flashes such as those that we are discussing at the moment.

Hi Paul,

I have sent an email to HW asking where the problem exist between Ikes DS strobes, OEM converter and the D2x. The D70 is compatible with the Ikes!!! The D200 and the D2x have the same list for compatible strobes! Is it a lack of testing or a fix on the OEM boards, who knows - my interest is to discover if it is possible to get one the solves the problem or not. I would hate to turn in my ikes for some inon strobes.. They are to wide for macro IMHO.

If he sorts out this little problem I think maybee Aquatica might get on board again. Ike is BIG on strobes!?

If not I hope Ikel pulls trough and makes a controller for other housings than ikelite.

I'll let you know if I get a reply before heading south (saturday). If not I'll post when I get back in a couple of weeks.

Cheers,

Espen :-)

Hi,

Whoa Paul - I am not seeing that at all. A direct copy from the Heinrich's website page for the D2x lists:

The following products work well with the Nikon D2X

OEM converter for Nikon i-TTL

 

This strobe can be used:

 

Hartenberger  125 HS TTL Digital 

Hartenberger  250 HS TTL Digital 

Hartenberger  625 HS TTL Digital 

Inon  D 2000W 

Inon  Z 240 

Sea & Sea  YS-60 TTL mod. Mike-Dive 

Subtronic  Maxi TTL 

Subtronic  Midi TTL 

Subtronic  Mini TTL '05  works with Nikon D100

Subtronic  Nova

I don't see the Ikelite DS50 in that list. It is listed in the yellow table below which is for using the strobe in manual power setting mode. Since the DS50 only has one power - FULL - I don't think that is much use.

Cheers

James

He he...

James you are quite right, as is Paul..

What we understand from the page is that the Ike Ds strobes are not supported (or tested) as of yet with d2x. This might change! D200 is also not supported!

D2x supports the OEM converter just not with Ikes strobes (for the time being)..

D70 IS supported, so we are crossing our fingers...

What this tells us is that a compatible version of OEM converter may be possible to produce. With the popularity of D200 and D2x, again I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Cheers,

Espen :-)

Hi Espen,

Correct. But let's look back in time a bit.

Matthias used to have many more strobes listed as compatible w/ the D2x. But he took those strobes off his list after doing some testing :-( The list that is posted on his website now is much smaller than it used to be. I think he was assuming that D2x iTTL would be the same as D70 iTTL - but it isn't.

Perhaps he will be able to redesign the converter to get these combinations to work, but I just don't know.

Cheers

James

Hi Guys-

I spoke with Dave at UW Photo and he stated that they were doing the testing of strobes with converter and that currently D2X and z240 is the only combo working (that they have tested in house).

Also, there is a similiar thread over at digitaldiver...I asked Matthias about d2x converter and he stated that it is same converter as d70...i did not get the impression from him that another one was in the works..

I'd email Dave at uwphoto.com and ask him directly...he seems to be providing the compatibility info directly to Matthias.

M.

Re:HeinrichsWeikamp~Inon Z 240 compatibility

« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2006, 08:22:05 AM »

Will the new controllers support the d2x and z220 strobes? or, just the new z240?

The controller is unchanged, just the Inon Z-240 is added to our compatibility list. It worked before but now it's "official".

regards,

Matthias

Hi all,

We'll I'm slowly getting to the bottom of all this. The word from Christian at HW is that the 20ms delay between the preflash and main flash is to short for the DS-50 strobes... The converter supports this but the strobes don't.

I'm left with a few questions though. How big is the difference between the ittl of the d200 and the d2x since Ike allready has ittl working with the d200 and the ds-50's?

I would love to hear from Ike if he has a solution or a plan. I would hate to switch on him after all theese years of fantstic service and great products! But if I have to, I will!

I have sent the same questions back to HW in hope that he can clear up matters firther!

Cheers,

Espen :-)

....update!

I asked HW about the D200 and Ikelites Ds strobes:

Hello Espen,

We can not say anything about the Ikelite products.

Our converter uses a dual-preflash (sometimes a second preflash is required for the D200) which DS-series strobes can not reproduce. Only the green marked strobes are supported in iTTL with our converter: http://www.heinrichsweikamp.net/cgi-bin/ca...n&kamera=n_d200

I doubt that the DS series can be altered easiely for faster flash intervals. The timings and currents within an IGBT-strobe are critical.

regards,

Matthias

Question now is, is Ike really selling a i-ttl compatible housing? Or are HW converter the limitation?

Cheers,

Espen (even more puzzled...)

Hi Espen and all,

I have also been looking at the HW converters to use with the Inon Quad flash.

But also there timing problems. :-)

But I also understand from theese webpages that with the HW converter you will loose rear sync, this as the converter uses that mode and the flash EV for his mIttl (many manual steps of any strobe even though the strobe does not have this output levels).

Is this correct?

/Anders Nygren

Anders -

Inon ring flash will not work with controller... Ryan at reef photo has tested... Only d2000 and z240 ..

Here is quote from Ryan...Ryan hope yo dont mind me quoting you...

"Nope, the ring flash is not fast enough. I've tested it in house.

I've tested about every strobe out there personally, both in the water

and in the workshop:

Subtronic Midi, Yes

Subtronic Mini, Yes

Ikelite DS200, NO

Ikelite DS125, NO

Ikelite DS50, NO

Inon D-2000w or wn, YES

Inon Z-240, YES

Inon Z-220, NO

Inon Z-22, NO

All Sea & Sea, NO

Thanks,

Ryan"