Ike 200 vs. others

There has been a fair amount fo debate regarding virtues of DS125's vs DX90's but there hasnt been much discussion regarding other strobes. For those of us shooting W/A manual or with DSLR's there are other choices.

Do most think these other strobes (i.e. Ike 200, Sea & Sea 350) are more power than needed for digital photography? Are we stuck on the idea that a wide range of power settings is needed rather than 4? Thoughts?

Nemo

Hi Nemo,

For consumer digital cameras, I would say that 2 x DS125's is enough for just about anything. I don't know why, but these small sensors with their digitally matched lenses are very light-sensitive.

For digital SLR's the situation is totally different. For wideangle, 2 x DS125's are the STARTING POINT, not the end point. The same can be said for macro at f16 or f22.

For wideangle, 3 power settings are plenty. For macro, three power settings are plenty provided the photographer doesn't mind moving his/her strobes for every shot. Macro is where TTL really shines. I can just put my two strobes into position and fire away - and after about 10 or 20 dives of this, I am confident that TTL will give me good macro exposures every time.

Cheers

James

When shooting the CP995, I found the SS200 to be overkill. I was shooting at 1/8 power and could kill the shot with too much light.

Consumer digicams have a more limited dynamic ranges. It is much easier to burn the shot with too much light and much easier to go from under to overexposed within the limited manual settings of the SS200.

So, yes the SS200 or YS350 is overkill for consumer digicams and yes, you really do want as many settings as possible.

Now, with a D-SLR, it's a whole 'nuther story. I'll keep firing with my SS200s.

Considering that dSLR's are derived from film SLR's, use the same lenses and ports, and have ISO ratings at least as fast as the films typically used, it's safe to say dSLR's don't require strobes bigger than film SLR's.

It's hard to believe all those lower powered strobes are useless to the film photographers who use them.

I can see what you're saying but I used a YS 50 for years and still use a YS 60 with lenses up to 20mm - perfect for subjects C/U and panoramas to about 10m. Using as flash fill in bright ambiant light realises good results too. For lenses wider than 20mm I use the single YS120. I honestly cannot understand why most people want to use 2 stobes when for 99% of their shots 1 will do - Maybe it's a penis thing?

It makes shooting vertically difficult to especially close to a fragile reef or in the confines of a wreck.

Big strobes are great for long arm extentions to reduce scatter, the extra power compensates amicably for the increased distance it has to travel to the cameras film plane. So if your shots are showing too much intensity move it further back or defuse it or both.

You don't have to spend the whole dive pigging around with numerous settings just because they are there - Use the force... :ph34r:

Craig,

Would you shoot a DSLR with a 14mm lens with 2 SS50 strobes? I think you'll probably say no, but then you could always say yes just to be cantankerous...

My point is that you can shoot just about ANYTHING a consumer digicam will shoot with 2 small strobes. The converse is not the case for the DSLR.

Just look at the guide number calc:

Consumer digicam highest fstop ~10

DSLR highest fstop ~32

That right there says a lot. For a strobe with a guide number of 32, you are looking at 1' for the DSLR and ~3' for the consumer cam.

Hope that makes sense. If I'm totally off-base here let me know guys.

Cheers

James

OK, I decided to add some more objective info to this one.

The maximum fstop on the Coolpix camera is f11. It's got a 28mm native lens

The maximum fstop on my Sigma 14mm is f22. It covers roughly 21mm.

That means that at ISO100 and maximum fstop, my S2/14mm needs twice as much light as the Coolpix.

For macro, it is exactly the same. You virtually HAVE TO shoot the Coolpix at f11 to avoid blowing out the shot. I would shoot my 60mm at f22. Again, that scenario calls for exactly twice the light of the consumer digicam.

Cheers

James

I think there are plenty of situations where you may find a smaller strobe adequate or even preferable to a larger one. Small strobes are easier to travel with especially when you have multiple rigs and want spares. The WA photographer I best know claims he seldom uses his SS200's at more than 1/8 or 1/4 power. Clearly smaller strobes are capable of that.

I just think that big strobes are not universally needed for dSLR's. I wasn't thinking in any way about consumer digitals. That said, the Hartenburger 625 watt-second strobe recycles in under a second. I think I need a couple of those!

Amigos,

Have to echo Cybergoldfish's comments.... I'm back to one strobe for now, although I do primarily shoot medium reef and wide shots these days. James and I have had some discussions on two versus one, but for me one is fine if you get the light where you want it. Much simpler to handle, too. Too each his own......

I also agree with Cybergoldfish and Craig that a bigger strobe = smaller f-stops isn't the end all we all brought with us from shooting film. With my D100 (lowest ISO now 200 for least noise) I shoot 90% of my shots at 1/8, 1/4 or 1/2 power settings on my DS125 without a diffuser. Most folks simply don't get close enough to light the subject (a problem with lenses on DSLRs, which will be recitified by the new 12-24mm DX lens coming out.)

The last years of film shooting I used two Ikelite 50 strobes, with lenses up to 20mm wide. One reason I DO prefer the DS125 strobe is warmer color temperature. But with software you can do a lot of warming up a photo if your strobe is close enough.

I advise folks who shoot wide, if they have an Ike 200 or 50 to keep it. Maybe add the new manual strobe controller for the 50, or more minute control of the 200. If you want to shift to a smaller lighter unit, the Ikelite DS125 is the best bang for the buck.

David Haas

Haas Photography Inc.

330-678-0591 ph/fax

dhaas@megsinet.net

http://homepage.mac.com/davidhaas/PhotoAlbum2.html

James -

I would ask what % of your macro shots require more than 50% of your strobe power, but since you shoot primarily TTL you may not be able to answer that. I would bet that at your highest f-stop your TTL is quenching at below 50% if you are within 3 ft. As we have discussed before, guide numbers from film are quite irrelevant when shooting digital. fstops seem almost as variable between cameras. Would a coolpix at f11 and an S2 at f11 offer the same sensitivity to light? Very unlikely! Digital cameras just aren't standardized that way.

For macro I never need more than 50% of my YS-120's power. Also, keep in mind that the depth of field with digital is so much better that you don't need as much light for macro - you can open your aperture a little and still get great depth of field. Personally, I would be just as happy with a pair of YS-90's as I am with my 120's. I've never shot anything less powerful than that, but I suspect that even the YS-60's might be adequate for most purposes.

Kasey

Kasey,

Good points all of them.

Supposedly, ISO100 at f11 is ISO100 at f11 is... It's not supposed to make a difference. They should both yield the same exposure. But for macro with a digital SLR, I'd want to shoot at f22 if possible for DOF reasons.

I talked to Burt Jones about this and he shoots macro on TTL. He's one of the best macro photographers that I know and I really respect his work. His advice is that for best color saturation, keep taking shots and upping the f-stop until you get a full dump from your strobes. That's what I do. I'm not usually shooting portraits where I'm trying to blur the background so this works well - just don't overexpose the shot of course if the TTL is not spot on.

You are coming from a different point of view having used the E20 - where DOF is much greater. For macro with a consumer camera, I'm sure anyone could get great shots with two 50 watt second strobes - no problem.

Wideangle is a whole different story. I could probably get some good shots with 2 YS90's but I'd much rather use more powerful strobes if I have them (like the DS125's). They really aren't that much bigger.

Cheers

James

Well that certainly started some comentary.

Ive been shooting pretty happily with one DX90 and even in dark water never had it at 100%. In the conditions I dive most frequently there is no background so lighting it or having it in the field of focus is of no concern. The diver in the attached shot (which is no work of art) is about 12 - 15 feet from my camera. He just swam out fo the wreck when I was passing by & I pointed and shot. By the way he is a Brit.

Which brings me to the point of my question. Bigger isnt better (in this case) and another DX90 for my current camera will be just fine. Being able to move it from the camera via slave (yes James I know what you think of those) is handy too.

"I wonder if my slave fired? Oh well, the shot's gone now."

What cam did you take that pic with Nemo? What speed film or ISO setting on your digicam?

Cheers

James

Oly 3040 in a Tetra w/ a Inon 100 WA. one DX90, ISO 100 F5.6 1/60 strobe around 75%.

Here is another from the same dive. I havent done much with it and remember this isnt the critque page