One big or Two Small?

For general combination shooting by a rec diver. Some normal, macro, and limited w/a would you prefer one big strobe such as the Ikelite 200, or a pair of small strobes like the 50?

I have always shot with one big one, but I am startiing to wonder if the benefit of balance would outweight the power advantage.

this is of course assuming one is too poor to have two biggies

I recently spent a long time scratching my head about this one. I was trying to decide between DS125 and DS50, and between 1 and 2. Different people have different priorities, so my decision might not suit everyone (and could still turn out to be the wrong one for me!).

From my wetpixel reading (thanks, everyone!) I concluded that it's likely that eventually I will want 2 strobes because of the flexibility. But it's not obviously the case, I might find one is enough.

If I do eventually end up with 2 strobes, would I rather have 2xDS50 or 2xDS125? On balance, I’d rather have 2xDS50, because of weight & size considerations. The DS125 does seem to weigh rather more, and it’s exacerbated by the batteries. All my equipment uses AA batteries (even in my Light Cannon I use AA, but that’s another story). Using the DS50 means I don't need to carry different battery sizes and different chargers. I just need 1 or 2 more sets of 4xAA. So overall I conclude that for me, 2xDS50 + batteries will weigh significantly less than 2xDS125 + battery packs + charger, and will also pack a bit smaller.

I guess I will miss some shots by having less power. I also guess that if I were really serious about getting every good shot, I’d have a housed DSLR. But I’m not that single-minded about it (and anyway, I don't have that level of skill! ); I’m compromising somewhere between cheap/inflexible/light and expensive/flexible/heavy, and different people would prefer different compromises.

So if I’m definitely not going to get 2xDS125, should I get 1xDS125, or 1xDS50, or 2xDS50?

There is a difference in recycle time , but since it also takes a couple of seconds for the camera to recycle, I think the difference in recycle time on the strobe will probably only rarely be an issue. Also I'm not expecting to use a full discharge on most shots, so I'm not expecting to need the full recycle time in most cases.

For macro I’d rather have DS50 – I can’t see why I would need the power of the DS125, whether it’s one or two. And I’ll use the camera’s flash as a fill, so I think I’ll only need one strobe for macro.

At short/medium distance - in terms of power, according to the specs 1xDS125 is very similar to 2xDS50. I don’t know whether I will find much difference between 1xDS125 and 2xDS50 in terms of the effect of the lighting in the shots. It seems unlikely that 1xDS125 would be better. So there doesn’t seem to be a reason to choose 1xDS125 over 2xDS50, other than the awkwardness of the extra equipment. (Remembering that in my case the extra weight of 2xDS50 + extra arms + extra sensor is offset by battery considerations.)

So overall I decided to start off with 1xDS50, and maybe buy a second one later if I feel I’m missing too much. As I said, it might be the wrong decision...

-David

Pattern, I like your discussion, I found your explanations very reasonable, and you pointed some good points there.

Now all I need is to enter the Sea&Sea strobes into your equations and it will be full.

I am thinking along the same route as you, pattern. Get a matched pair of Ike 50's a dual sync cord and two macro grip arms 4085.14 With the connectors and 2 4" sections, if I attach to the top of the handles I would think we could get a full 12-16 inches away from the lens for normal shots as well.

Thanks for the input. I will keep studying.

One thing you might consider adding is a pair of manual strobe controllers. I've found that while the DS-50 throws a bunch of light, unless you're camera is TTL or using the wireless TTL sensor, it's a bit too much at times.

I agree for digital tshepard, but this will be for a film SLR set up. I will probably use a dual sync cord and to Ike 50 strobes, not the ds versions.

Sorry James.....I get to dive once a year at most, and I couldn't deal with the learning curve for UW digi. (Plus I dont have the nerve to stick 8,000 bux worth of camera and lenses underwater)

I know how to work film and lighting underwater, so I am going back to a housed film camera. (I know, I am a traitor)

Once I scan them they are technically digital, can I still post here?

even in my Light Cannon I use AA, but that’s another story

Wow... I'm assuming you are talking about your UK Light Cannon HID light? How and why? I'd like to hear "the other story".

THat would certainly be an interesting story, and one that would make my life a lot less complicated. Ok, maybe not that much less complicated, but every little bit is an improvement.

I'm assuming you have limited resources, so buying 2 big strobes is out. Here are some ways you can often compete with everyone else for less $.

Look into buying a descent primary strobe and then pick up a “dumb” fill slave from eBay for $60-70 (or what ever they are going for). After all, the primary reason for that second strobe is fill light right? To do this, you have to think a little bit about what is going on but it is pretty easy. When your main flash fires, your slave will do a full dump also. These things have a guide number of about 28 and you want your fill to underexpose by an f stop or so. You can effectively adjust the power by adjusting the distance it is to your subject. This is really pretty easy once you play with it a bit.

Poor man's macro - ah graduate school trained me well. First of all, as your strobe gets closer and closer to the subject, it acts less as a point source of light and more as an area of light. An area of light makes softer shadows and looks better. When shooting macro you need your strobe close anyway if you want to have good depth of field (f22 or so). Slap that diffuser on and bring your strobe close in. A second strobe doesn’t help as much as you might think if your strobe is close. Why do you want a second strobe anyway? Oh yeah, to provide fill lighting about an f stop less than your primary strobe. If you put, say, a white dive slate on the other side of your subject so that light from your primary strobe bounces off it and onto the subject you have a poor mans fill flash. I hope this helps.

Some of these tricks are situation dependant, a crinoid will likely let you move your strobe and dive slate into position for that macro shot but a fish probably won’t unless it is the kind you buy at ToysRUS.

Wow...  I'm assuming you are talking about your UK Light Cannon HID light?  How and why?  I'd like to hear "the other story".   

Why?

Part 1: I attach the Light Cannon to the camera setup for night dives so as to keep one hand free. I have a home-made plastic diffuser attached to elastic which I put over the front of the light if I need it to illuminate an object for aiming/focussing the camera. With C cells the whole thing is quite negatively bouyant, and it gets a bit tiring after a while.

Part 2: I have found it just impossible to get a charger just big enough for C-cells, as they all seem to be either AA or D size maximum. Put that big charger together with the extra weight of 8 C-cells compared to 8 AA cells, and it starts to add a noticeable amount to the overall weight. I already have trouble with excess luggage on diving trips, so I'm doing whatever I can to keep the weight down.

As for How:

I bought a bunch of plastic tubes: one set is just bigh enough for AA cells to slide inside it, the other is exactly the same external diameter as C cells. Then I cut the tubes to the length of 2 batteries (less a bit), and packed the small tubes inside the big tubes with some sticky padding to hold it in place. I actually tapes the set of 4 big tubes together, as it;s easier to handle that way. I'd post a photo except at the moment I can't see how to do it with this discussion board (it was easy last time I posted something but now it doesn't seem to be easy any more ...)