Ikelite lens port question - 105VR Micro

Hi Guys,

Although I have been lurking on the site for quite a while this is my first post here. I have posted the below question a few days ago on DDN but had VERY limited feedback which did not directly address any of the issues. It was suggested to me that i may have better luck here.

Here it goes.

Does anyone know of any plans by Ikelite for a manual focus lens port for the Nikon 105 VR macro lens. I noticed on the Ikelite page that the only port available for this lens is AF. This is a drawback as form the reviews of this lens it seems that it has problems focusing at close distances, and I imagine that in a low light, underwater environment this problem would be even more evident.

I have to decide between this version of the lens and the previous one (I believe there is a manual focus port for that one). As much as I’m leaning towards the VR version, the unavailability of manual focus could be a deal breaker as I’m looking to use this lens mostly under water.

If anyone is using the 105 VR lens with the Ikelite AF port and your experience is different from my assumptions please let me know also as this may make the difference.

Any feedback will be highly appreciated.

Cheers,

Adam.

I own this lens as well as the old 105mm with the Ikelite AF/MF port. I have not had a chance to test the new VR version underwater as I don't have a port either.

I remember Ikelite responding that a MF port isn't needed with the new AF-S lens so they weren't planning tp produce one.

I was hoping to get more usable AF performance in low-light. I'm a bit lukewarm on this purchase. The focus motor is indeed much faster on this lens, but focusing near 1:1 doesn't seem much better. In my topside flower shots when I was near 1:1 more often than not I was switching to M and rocking my body back and forth to obtain focus. This was in daylight not at 80 feet underwater.

I've decided that the aperture, subject contrast and magnification matter more in focusing than does AFS for this kind of lens. When it hunts it moves much faster than the old lens, but getting there is only half the battle. It doesn't seem to "find" focus any faster. Sometimes it just gets close and stops trying. No green light and you have to release the shutter and press it again to get focus.

As to mF ports. Personally I'm waiting until Ikelite makes a flat port for the 8" port system (as they promised on the website) before I house this one. It would be great to have all my ports simplified. It would be very easy to make a AF/MF port for this lens as you could use the zoom gear to drive the focus ring. Unfortunatey this lens is WIDE. It barely fits in the 8" dome extensions. No chance to add focus rings in there unless the port diameter is wider.

In the end I don't really want to mess with MF anyway underwater most of the time. For the subjects that I mostly shoot I want the flexibility and speed of AF and a good focus light is the best way to get that. Most subjects I shoot ate in the 1:4-1:2 range anyway. For really small subjects (or with a diopter) I think it may be better to just set a reproduction ratio, set it to M on the lens and camera, plant myself in the sand next to my subject, deflate my BC and focus with my body. In this case a MF port might not be the way to go when its needed most anyway.

Thanks for taking the time to offer a detailed response.

Based on your post, it seems like the older version of the lens would be more flexible under water (untill ikelite comes out with their new ports at least - AF/MF would be ideal) and you also confirm the focusing at close distances issue. Due to the water clarity where I dive, I tend to shoot very close macro which makes me think that the older version of the lens in manual focus may be more suitable for my purposes, or at least it would allow me to choose before the dive between AF and MF.

Jury is still out. Need to decide by the end of the month.

Thanks,

Adam.

Also a couple of other issues with this lens. The lens is very wide but the optical surface itself isn't. They went to 62mm threads but I'm not sure why. The lens itself appears to be only 52mm wide. I think the extra girth has to do with the VR and AFS.

This caused several issues.

1) Supplementary lenses. On land I use the 105mm with reversed 50mm and 24mm lenses (as powerful diopters). This may work with a step-down ring as my hand-hold tests didn't vigenette. Also the matching 62mm double element filters, the 5T and 6T are discontinued. They are going on E-bay for more than double retail. I managed to get a 5T slightly used for retail but am still hunting for a 6T at reasonable price. You may be able to use the 52mm 4T with a step-down ring or I could get a standard size 77mm Canon 500D for $140. All very frustrating since the diopters for the old lens were inexpensive.

2) The lens doesn't fit in most ports. Even companies like Subal had to re-design their ports and they are just now becoming available.

I may keep it anyway, I do like the internal focusing which actually increased working distance at 1:1 and the AFS-VR makes this a better medium distance fish portrait lens.

This is a great lens. It autofocuses very fast and very well underwater--much faster than the 60mm. However, without a diopter the lens doesn't focus as close to the subject as a 60mm. If you are shooting a stationary subject where you can get as close as you want and take as much time as you want the 60mm is capable of 1:1. However, shooting a closeup of a moving subject is something where the Af105VR stands alone IMHO

See www.wtreynolds.org

I think that this lens has positives and negatives over the old 105mm for UW use. You can read a mini-review in this discussion, here:

http://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=14992

Alex

I definitely LOVE Alex's wide angel macro shots. I got to try it once Alex reveals how. That seahorse is way cool.

I am using the AF105VR for something else I call "moving macro" The idea is to take macro shots of those little skittish fish that are flitting around and never sitting still. Attached is a Masked Goby or possibly a Glass Goby. These are only two species of Gobies in the Carribean that don't have the decency to sit quietly on the bottom and pose for us macro shooters. Instead they flit around pretending they are Cardinalfish.

Now nobody should confuse my photographic skill with that of an expert like Alex but there is no chance I could get a bead on this little critter with the autofocus speed of my 60MM, much less manual focus.

In fact I missed getting the focus rectangle on the eye of this critter. The focus rectangle is slightly above and to the right of the fish out of the frame of this crop. When they sit quietly on the coral it's just a lot easier. Still you get the idea.

Tom

Hey Tom,

I like the shot! I think its the composition that makes it, Subjects in both thirds corners and diagonal of coral with the fish making eye contact. Well lit too. Nicely done.

However, without a diopter the lens doesn't focus as close to the subject as a 60mm. If you are shooting a stationary subject where you can get as close as you want and take as much time as you want the 60mm is capable of 1:1. However, shooting a closeup of a moving subject is something where the Af105VR stands alone IMHO

FWIW both the 60mm and the 105mm can achieve 1:1, the 60mm gets physically closer, but they both have the same magnification i.e the subject is the same size in the frame even though you are a bit farther back with the 105mm. The 105mm actually makes it easier to go beyond 1:1 since you have a bit more working distance if you want to use a diopter. I previously posted a handy chart that shows the reproduction ratio of all sorts of combinations of diopters, TC and tubes with the 60mm and 105mm.

I'm glad to hear that you like the focus speed underwater. If its as fast as the 60mm then I'm happy.

I can describe how I use the AF105VR on MOVING subjects. I defer to Alex on stationary subjects.

To shoot very small, fast moving sibjects, first, you must get the focus close. I tend to focus on the background coral to get close then try to get the subject in the focus rectangle and simutaneously take the shot. I set the D200 to focus priority so it won't fire if there is nothing in the focus rectangle.

At my novice level I keep the focus rectangle in the center so I can figure out where I was actually focusing. I have collected some full-frame shots and drawn cross-hairs wher the center of the focus rectangle was when the shot was taken.

You be the judge how easy it would be to get these shots with a 60mm, the old 105MM or in manual focus

For what it's worth, I tried out the new Ike port together with the D200 and 105VR last night to see if it would still fit with a T6 on the front of the 105VR. It fit fine.

SD

Great news.

I think this will be a great lens to use with a diopter. If I can find one. I've bid on 6 on e-bay now that went up to around $100. Anyone know where I can get one in like new condition for near retail price?

I use the 105VR with 52mm 3T and 4T lenses and conversion ring with no vignetting at all.

You can still get the T3 diopter from B&H photo. I bought one a few days ago. That's the 52mm version though which fits the old 105mm, I think the new VR is 62mm unfortunately.

I use an external "wet" diopter which seems to do well and gives me flexibility. Sometimes shooting from further away is useful

You can still get the T3 diopter from B&H photo. I bought one a few days ago. That's the 52mm version though which fits the old 105mm, I think the new VR is 62mm unfortunately.

Right, so what davichin is suggesting is to use a 62-52mm step-down ring with the 52mm 3T. Thanks for confirming that this combo works. There is a lot of non-lens surface around the edge of the 105mm VR that makes this possible. Its great because it means that you probably can also use reversed mounted 52mm lenses as well.

Thanks for all the feedback everyone.

Ended up getting the D80 and the 105 VR today. After some (very) brief testing in low light conditions I can see what people mean when they say the lens hunts a lot (still a massive improvement over my Oly 5060), but when tested against a decent contrast focus area it gets the focus spot on real quick even in low light (wish me luck with the transparent shrimps ). As some of the posts suggested a decent focus light should take care of any possible problems with focusing I read about. So now it's about 2 months for the housing to come out and another 4 or so on top of that before i get one.

(My focus test shots involved a white cat on a white background, but when a darker area, which in this case would be an eye, was selected for focus, the camera-lens combo focused spot on and real quick - me happy)

Once again thanks for all the help with the decision process.

Cheers,

A.

Shrimp are no problem. The problem is something like a Juvinile Trunk fish that hides in a dark hole. Set your D-80 to focus priority and the camera will not fire if it can't focus.