TTL solutions for sony V3

Hi All.

I was wondering what my choices are to try to get TTL working on a sony V3?

I see a heinrich converter is available for sony, though it has only been tested with the f828..

Anyone think it likely to work with a V3 and ike strobes?

Otherwise, I guess I'm limited to an inon D2000, or some such right?

How is the S-TTL really working with the d2000 and other sony cams? Or are you always going to strobe auto, or manual?

Thanks,

Don

Hi Don,

My girlfriend's setup is a Sony P150 with an Inon D-2000. She uses the P150 in manual, which gives her two (count 'em) apertures and a good range of shutter speeds. She runs the D-2000 in S-TTL. It works great though obviously it'll run out of juice at distance just like manual strobes do.

I believe you could also use an Inon Z240, which as far as I'm aware does most of the things a D-2000 will do, but adds the ability to run off a Nikonos cable. Check with the Z-240 experts on that.

Another strobe that could be of interest is the Sea&Sea YS110. I've got two of them and they can work off a fibre optic like a D-2000, and mimic the preflashes in the same way.

Good luck,

Martyn

Hi Martyn. Great info! Thanks a lot.

Using a wired solution would be prefereable. I just wonder if it can still do the preflash right, using a YS110, or Z240, wired?

I wonder why the ikelite optical TTL slave does not work with most of the sony? I can confirm that it does not work, in reality, with the V3...

Does that mean the other optical slave units are equally unlikely to work right? Or do they have something the Ikelite ds strobes & TTL controller does not?

Thanks!

Don

No worries.

It sounds like you may have slightly the wrong end of the stick. The wired connection is for DSLRs with bulkhead sockets. If those can fire the strobe in fully dedicated preflashed TTL modes then yes. An example would be a housing with a Heinrichs OEM TTL adapter built in, or in my case a Sea&Sea TTL Converter.

For compact digicams like the V3 you'll be wanting to hook it up with a fibre optic cable as per the Sea&Sea and Inon systems. These blank off the built in flash from hitting the subject, but pick up its signal via the optic fibre and take it to the flash's slave sensor.

My reason for mentioning the Z240 is that you could use that flash with a DSLR at a later date. Same story with the YS-110.

By the looks of the Ikelite site, the optical TTL slave sensor isn't preflash compatible, so all of the Ikelite TTL systems are wired systems, built into the housing. Now, although the Ikelite housing for the V3 has a simple 2-pin X-sync connection that precludes wired TTL operation, that may not be the end of the story.

There's nothing stopping you trying one of the optically slaved TTL strobes, like the D-2000, Z240 or YS-110. I know of no real reason that they would fail to work. These just mimic the built in flash, for both the metering preflash and the main flash.

HTH,

Martyn

The Ike optical TTL slave worked with most digicams and their pre-flashes, up until a couple years ago. It worked great with the old canon G2. Then I guess some of the cameras pre-flashes got too short, and the slave could not follow anymore.

The V3 has a hotshoe...

In fact, on the heinrich's site, there is a wired "oem" converter for sony. Though the V3 has never been tried.

The heinrich converters works with ike DS type strobes, including for cameras that need pre-flashes, like the sony 828.

I'm in contact with Ryan at reef photo, and he's going to see if he can get a sony converter to try out, at his place, if I send him the camera.

I shot with 35mm SLR all through the 90s, and don't see going back to that weight and bulk in my travels.

Yeah, it maybe short flashes or the gaps between them too short. I notice Matthias has timings listed in the table of strobes on his site, but it's not clear if that's shortest duration or shortest gap. Maybe the V3 falls foul of these.

I'm sure Ryan will be able able sort you out.

I got confused by Ike's site. About the TTL slave sensor it says "The TTL Slave Sensor is designed for use with Film and dSLR cameras. It is NOT reccommended for use with point and shoot digital cameras." So it sounded like that wasn't the unit you were using with the G2, but I guess it must be.

Good luck with getting it all working.

Martyn

If you look at the ike's solutions for canon digicams:

http://www.ikelite.com/web_pages/camcanchart.html

You'll see that all of the old G series (G2, G3, G5) worked with the "Digital Slave Sensor", as did the old ng with the G2, but I guess it must be.

nikon cp-5000, and the oly 2000, 4000, 4040, etc.

I guess today none of the current ones work, which is too bad. So they must have changed the description of the part, in the meantime, to match up with current reality.

Thanks again!

Don

I now have a S&S YS110, and fiber optic cord, and it does NOT do TTL with the V3. The mode 1 manual (for preflash), works, but in TTL, it seems to blow out the preflash, and then not expose on the main flash at all.

Any reason to believe an Inon 2000 would be any better?

Thanks!

Don

I doubt it Don. It sounds like the gap between preflash and main flash is so short that the quench edge is missed. Obviously when the system is in manual, the strobe is managing to differentiate between the two "rising edges", but in TTL, the "falling edge" of the preflash is being missed.

If the gap is too short for the YS-110 then I suspect it'll be too short for most other slave (mimic) TTL systems also. That's not to say don't try it if you can find someone with a D-2000 or Z-240. It would be useful to rule it out.

Martyn

Well, some great news here.

The heinrich optical Digital Adapter is working great, even with my very old (too old to upgrade!) Ike DS50.

The ike optical slave is unable to follow the preflash on the V3, with this same strobe.

I have tried and tried, and have confirmed repeatedly that the ys110 does NOT work in TTL, even with a carefully mounted and blacked out fiber optic. The ys110 will be going back.

The heinrich's DA really kicks butt!

It works well in "Recorded-TTL" mode, where the external strobe preflash and main exposure follow immediately after the on camera preflash and main.

It works in multiplier mode too! So you can come closer to getting full use of older, slower strobes, by having it multiply the measured pulse width for the preflash and main exposure. I've got it up to twice, and it puts out a LOT more light, on f8 distant shots...

I am amazed and happy that this works, when the ys110 failed. Hurray for Ryan for at Reef photo, for setting me up!

Great news Don!

I'm not 100% surprised that Matthias' adapter is better at the extremes than the YS-110. I get the feeling he actually put more work into getting it as accurate as he could for exactly this application. So the fact that he can deal with a shorter gap between preflash and main flash is the happy upshot for you.

By the way, does the YS-110 work when wired to the Heinrichs DA2? If the DA2 is making the decisions about what the camera strobe is doing, the YS might have a better go at it. Just a thought, would be interesting to know. Also it could go in the Heinrichs Weikamp chart.

I guess on the Multi TTL mode you start having to think about shutter speeds so you don't knock of the end of the main flash, but its a very clever system.

Oh, out of interest, does the DA work in Mode 2: Normal-TTL on the Sony V3? That is the style of operation that all of the other circuits will be trying to do, and failing due to the short gap. The other DA2 modes all "record" the main flash and only "replay" it once it is finished, giving the strobe much more time to reset its trigger after the preflash. Cool bit of kit.

It's great to hear you've got sorted.

Martyn

Yes, you are right about the engineering and thought that has gone into the DA2. The recorded mode, which prevents the main flash from interfering with detecting the camera's flash is brilliant.

I tried mode 2, briefly, and it seemed inconsistent. It would work once, and then not work two or three times...

I have no S&S cables, so have no way to test the ys110 on the DA2. My guess is that it would work fine. No reason not.

In Kona now, and alas, I have bad news to report.

In the field, my setup is not working TTL in reality.

It turns out that this old DS-50 strobe is flat out missing the preflash, and the camera reports no preflash detected. From the exif info:

Flash - Flash fired, compulsory flash mode, return light not detected

Not sure if a newer ds-51 or 125 would do any different..??

What fooled me is that the camera must do something pretty smart when it does not see the preflash return. Like do a flash duration proportional to f-stop * distance / ISO, and this gets it in the ballpark...

More as I have results.