Using RAID 0 to capture HD footage

Hi all

After some advice before we invest $$$...

Currently we capture HD footage from a Sony A1 onto a Mac PB using FCE HD. FCE HD is launched from the PB and the footage is catured and stored on an 250Gb FW800 external HD that is getting full. As such we're considering buying a larger (1Tb) external HD to replace the 250Gb. Am looking at the LaCie Big Disk Extreme and the Maxtor One Touch III Turbo Ed - both have RAID 0 capability.

Qs:

1. Is RAID 0 the way forward for faster HD footage capturing?

2. Is it safe to store the footage on a RAID 0 HD or better to use only as a scratch disk?

3. Is it worthwhile/beneficial to launch FCE HD from the external HD or better to keep as is on the the PB?

4. Is 1Tb enough / overkill?

5. Any other suggestions for a fast (non-network) method of caturing HD footage?

Thanks for your input.

Col.

Look at getting an external SATA dual-bay enclosure and a cardbus 2-channel SATA card. (www.granitedigital.com) Supports RAID 0 and 1. Hot swapable. Extra drive tray cost $20. 150MB/s per channel with cardbus adapter, 300MB/s per channel with ExpressBus 34 adapter.

For HDV, you only need 3.7 MB/s so any FW drive will do. A large RAID 0 is useful if you are going to convert it to an intermediate 4:2:2 codec (about 1GB per minute). Otherwise the extra capacity is wasted unless you have large projects and render a lot of different versions etc and want to keep DVD versions for easy reproduction.

I agree with Chris that eSATA is probably a better option and much faster too. FW800 even in RAID 0 is limited. It also allows for expandability. Since you are in Jakarta, I assume you go to Singapore or Malaysia for your tech buys? I would check out the Addonics 5 drive enclosure which is also port multiplier compatible. This frees up each port so you can have up to 10 drives with a PCMCIA card. You will also be maximizing the 1.5gbps per channel as drives can't hit that speed unless in RAID 0.

So do you need 1TB+? If you edit in HDV (and you really shouldn't) then no. Depends on how many capture minutes you have for the project. I usually wipe my volumes after each project.

I agree with Chris that eSATA is probably a better option and much faster too. FW800 even in RAID 0 is limited. It also allows for expandability. Since you are in Jakarta, I assume you go to Singapore or Malaysia for your tech buys?

Thanks for the input guys - sounds like getting an eSATA is the way to go over FW800. Incidentally, what's the diff between SATA II and eSATA?

Will actually be in S'pore for a few days soon Anything I should really look for when getting a eSATA enclosure/drive and card? How compatible are they with a PB and will I be able to use with a MacPro when we upgrade???

Col eSATA= external SATA . SATA II is 3gbps.

I'm not sure you can find a proper PCMCIA card for a PBG4 in SIngapore. Firmtek is a good brand but difficult to find.

An alternative is to look for any PC card that uses the Silicon Image controller chip and download the OSX drivers direct from Silicon Image. Sabrent is one brand that uses it. This card is port muliplier compatible so you can use any port multiplier enclosure like the Addonics and have 4 drives to one port, giving you the possibility of having a 10 drive array, albeit software RAID. NOTE that PC card versions are usually SATA not SATA II so it's limited to 1.5gbps. When you upgrade to a MacPro, you'll need an PCIe eSATA card to run the drives. Again make sure it's PM compatible. PCIe allows 3.0 gbps.

With the PM drive enclosure, you'll hit a limit of 250MB/s or so. That's easily done with 4 drives. With that r/w speed, you'll be able to edit anything except uncompressed HD.

RAID 0 is fast, but there is NO redundancy. This means if one of your drives goes, you are lost.

Raid 1 would be my choice ig I only had 2 drives to work with but it is not going to be as fast as level 0.

If I were to choose and I had 4 drives I'd be inclined to choose lavel 1+0 (sometimes called RAID 10) but this doesn't work out too well in a portable syatem.

There is a REALLY good discussion of RAID from IBM at:

http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/e...0_cselraid.html

It may be a bit too technical for some but it really lays out the advantages/disadvantages of the different choices. also, be aware there is a difference between "hardware" and "software" RAID. Hardware support is always preferred.

On a related topic... I've recently (over the last 2 years) gone through several (3+ of 7 purchased) LaCie 500Gb drives. Seems that these cases contain two 250Gb Western Digital drives in RAID 0 and they are failingtoo often for my liking. Granted I'm not easy on these but... as with all RAID 0 setups if one of the internal drives go you are hosed. Seems that LaCie won't warrant these for over a year. They treat them as disposable. I'll not be buying these any more.

Thank god for tape!

Mark

RAID 1 + is great for photographs etc where backup is gold. With capture/rendering, even a 0+1 will have too much processor overhang to be fast enough, esp for HD uncompressed.

La Cie and all other OEM types will not warranty the drives, which should have 3-5 year warranties. What they offer you is a storage solution. That's why it's most cost effective to BYO array, albeit a less elegant one than the La Cie types.

Another trick is to open the La Cie enclosure and send the drive to the manufacturer direct. They'll often warranty it.

Another trick is to open the La Cie enclosure and send the drive to the manufacturer direct. They'll often warranty it.

I have thought about that but given that the original drive died, i just don't have enough confidence to use it any more

Mark

RAID 1 + is great for photographs etc where backup is gold. With capture/rendering, even a 0+1 will have too much processor overhang to be fast enough, esp for HD uncompressed.

Really? I'm not a video guy, but to me it seems that any slowness in the 1+0 would be due to either the drive or the RAID card.

I recently rolled out three new servers for some engineering applications and they used a relatively new drive solution and i'm really impressed. Pretty much off topic but the solution was a Dell MD1000 drive enclosure+ a Perc 5e RAID controller and the chassis is filled with 15 each 149Gb 15,000 RPM SAS drives in RAID 1. all this for about $8K. I purchased 6 of them. 3 in Raid 1 and three in RAID 5. That is 1.9Tb in level 5.

This is a 3Gbps solution and I cannot believe how cheap this stuff has gotten!!

Really? I'm not a video guy, but to me it seems that any slowness in the 1+0 would be due to either the drive or the RAID card.

 

I recently rolled out three new servers for some engineering applications and they used a relatively new drive solution and i'm really impressed. Pretty much off topic but the solution was a Dell MD1000 drive enclosure+ a Perc 5e RAID controller and the chassis is filled with 15 each 149Gb 15,000 RPM SAS drives in RAID 1. all this for about $8K. I purchased 6 of them. 3 in Raid 1 and three in RAID 5. That is 1.9Tb in level 5.

 

This is a 3Gbps solution and I cannot believe how cheap this stuff has gotten!!

If it's a hardware RAID then there shouldn't be any overhang. But Col's computer is a laptop so the array will be software RAID, which means that the processor will be taxed.

Just 10 years ago my 80GB UWSCSI was about the same price as your dell.

And in 2 years, we'll be buying drives in TB.

I think you got most of the answers above, but figured I would throw a couple of things out.

Not sure if you know people in the States who can bring you drives or enclosures, but other good cases include those from firewiredirect.com and wiebtech.com. firewiredirect.com has a FW 800 Raid-0 that is set by jumper and does a real nice job. Though SATA/eSata is better, I can get very good throughput on this setup.

And 750 Gig Hard Drives have dropped alot in price, though a bit more of a premium on the pricing as compared to 500 Gig Drives. Seagate makes very good drives, and I tend to buy them when I can, though I do pick up some Maxtor and Western Digitals from time to time.

Of course people have different opinions on brands, but I would never let anyone buy a Lacie Drive if I could stop them from doing so. They have alot of issues (at least they have for me) - they are the only drives I have ever had fail (touch wood) - 3 of them went down like dominoes. Warned my friend about them and he did not listen. 6 months later he had to buy DataRescue. (The Lacie Fastcoder is a good little gadget and my Lacie PMCIA cards for my Powerbook are fine, so I am not bashing Lacie, just relaying my own experiences with the drives )

Also, if you are using FW to write to the storage drive, make sure to get a PCMCIA card for the FW out to the drive. You do not want the FW in and out on the Powerbook to be on the FW ports on the Powerbook. Makes capturing more reliable

You are fine running the app form your hard drive. Though if you have the original stock drive (not sure which PB model you have) it has a 4200 RPM drive with little cache. Not sure what your budget is, but if you can get a 5400RPM with a larger cache in you will see a big improvement. The jump from 5400RPM to 7200RPM is not as dramatic performance wise if you are trying to save money, but if you can get 7200RPM, go for it. Also max out your RAM

If you can set up to edit to have a scratch disc for rendering, the assets on another drive and your system and app on the third drive, it gives the best performance. Try not to use your Powerbook drive for scratch or assets if you can avoid it.

Also make sure to keep your system drive at least 20% empty. The more room on the system drive (and other drives in fact) open the better. Usually you can start seeing a performance hit at around 80% full give or take.