Acceptable business practice?

Is it just me, or does underwater photograph equipment attract dealers with unusual business practices? Both of my major purchases of UW photo equipment (totaling around $7k) have been marred with, what I consider, questionable business practices. Let me tell you about the most recently transaction since it is very clear-cut. I prefer not to mention the dealer’s name since my goal is to spur an open discussion of business practices, and not to exact retribution. Here is the story.

On Jan 5, I contacted a dealer about buying one of the new Aquatica magnified viewfinders. I told the dealer that I really wanted to get the viewfinder before a big trip I am taking on Jan 26. He told me, repeatedly, that this was absolutely doable and that I would have it by Jan 15 at the absolute latest.

A couple of days ago, I got a credit card receipt in the mail from said dealer in which he charged my card for the full amount. I wrote to him and asked for the tracking number of the shipment. He wrote back and said something to the effect of “I’m sorry, I haven’t shipped the product. This bill is to hold your place on the waiting list.†Now this strikes me as very odd. No company that I have ever dealt with has charged my credit card in full without shipping the product. I am not a lawyer, but I don’t even think it is legal!

Then the other shoe drops. Apparently Aquatica is having problems getting a critical part and won’t be able to ship the product for another 3-4 weeks, so clearly my plans for using it on my upcoming trip just went out the window. I wrote back to the dealer and asked him to reverse the credit card charges until the product was ready to ship. I explicitly told him that I was NOT canceling the order, but I didn’t feel I should have to pay a $1200 credit card bill without receiving my purchase.

The vendor wrote back and said that he would reverse the charges, but was planning to withhold a $35 transaction fee and he would put me at the bottom of the waiting list. Needless to say, I canceled the order outright and placed it with a different dealer.

My point is that sometimes businesses make commitments that they are unable to fulfill. It happens. What distinguishes a reputable one from a disreputable one is how they deal with it. In my opinion, the critical failures in this transaction were 1. Charging the credit card before the product was ready to ship, and 2. Failing to make good on a reasonable request to correct the problem.

Perhaps it is simply that this field is very small and that there are a number of small dealers, who don’t quite have the business ethic of larger companies. I don’t know. Fortunately, I was able to get out of the transaction with nothing more than a bad taste in mouth.

So, what do you think? Is it reasonable to charge a credit card in full when the product will not ship for a month?

BTW, I am still eagerly awaiting my viewfinder, which looks really cool.

A couple of days ago, I got a credit card receipt in the mail from said dealer in which he charged my card for the full amount. I wrote to him and asked for the tracking number of the shipment. He wrote back and said something to the effect of “I’m sorry, I haven’t shipped the product. This bill is to hold your place on the waiting list.†Now this strikes me as very odd. No company that I have ever dealt with has charged my credit card in full without shipping the product. I am not a lawyer, but I don’t even think it is legal!

 

Then the other shoe drops. Apparently Aquatica is having problems getting a critical part and won’t be able to ship the product for another 3-4 weeks, so clearly my plans for using it on my upcoming trip just went out the window. I wrote back to the dealer and asked him to reverse the credit card charges until the product was ready to ship. I explicitly told him that I was NOT canceling the order, but I didn’t feel I should have to pay a $1200 credit card bill without receiving my purchase.

 

The vendor wrote back and said that he would reverse the charges, but was planning to withhold a $35 transaction fee and he would put me at the bottom of the waiting list. Needless to say, I canceled the order outright and placed it with a different dealer.

I'm not sure about the US legal system but i believe that is called 'mail fraud' and there is a procedure you can follow to get them in a whole heap of trouble if you wish. I'm 99% sure it is illegal in the US to take payment for an item you don't have in stock. But i did have similar exchanges with a large NY photo store, and an American friend helped me out with some strongly worded emails/calls on my behalf and got it sorted very quickly!

So, what do you think? Is it reasonable to charge a credit card in full when the product will not ship for a month?

I find it neither reasonable or unreasonable to do so. It's just a policy decision. B&H charges for backordered items, then ships it to you when it arrives. I choose never to purchase under these circumstances.

There are legitimate operational reasons for a retailer to charge for backordered items. Queing up for a new item like a viewfinder can be a real drag. If no deposit or charge is accepted, then customers que up with every available retailer. Every customer will be on every retailers' list. This means the retailer sits there with the newly arrived product while he works his way down the list to find real buyers.

As for your specific situation, I would suspect that the retailer really honestly thought the viewfinder was shipping.

BTW, it is not illegal to charge you. It would be illegal if they never shipped it and refused to give you the money back. I have customers who try to charge back stuff. If I can't prove I shipped it, I lose.

So far it is an interesting range of opinions. It ranges from a policy decision to mail fraud. I am not a lawyer so I won't chime in with whether it is legal or not. In my case I know that I didn't like it so I voted with my pocketbook. The new dealer has a much more reasonable policy. They will charge me and ship the product when it comes in.

So far it is an interesting range of opinions. It ranges from a policy decision to mail fraud. I am not a lawyer so I won't chime in with whether it is legal or not. In my case I know that I didn't like it so I voted with my pocketbook. The new dealer has a much more reasonable policy. They will charge me and ship the product when it comes in.

Hmm, reading it again, it is a little different to my situation, i was told they had multiple items in stock, they got the money, then they were 'out of stock' for some time. As he said it wasn't in stock when you ordered i would imagine there is very little you can do. Could he have just been over enthusiastic and so determined to help you that he said the wrong thing? ie a genuine mistake?

Back to your first paragraph....

I guess in some respects we see the diving community as a closed community where we help each other out, so we as consumers put up with stuff that isn't perfect because 'they like to dive too' - for example i was recently looking for an up to date nexus port list, and i came across several underwater photo shops around the world with hugely out of date home pages showing 'new' D70 housings and hot off the press D200 housings (with specifications to follow soon!)!! I know those shops are great shops, but as an outsider looking in i wouldn't take them all that seriously. I'm not suggesting that some retailers take advantage of our good nature, there are some fantastic companies offering great customer support (especially here on wetpixel), but i would say we are a far more understanding bunch that other hobbyists.

I am not overly upset the over-rosy delivery date expectations. These things happen. However what I am upset about is the attempt to penalize me for his broken promise. He should never have charged my credit card without telling me first. I checked all of my communications with him very carefully. There was no mention of prepaying before the product is ready to ship.

Trying to charge me $35 to reverse the credit card charge and putting me at the bottom of the queue, is just bad practice. If it really costs him to reverse the charge, he should just eat it. After all, the only reason there was a charge at all is because he jumped the gun. Besides, if I am going to be at the end of his queue, I might as well be at the end of someone else's queue.

I recommend reporting this to aquatica. I believe ive seen them post here on wet pixel and i'm sure they would want to know. from my dealings with them directly they are a great company, and may even be able to get your part. Also I have had good experience with backscatter for my aquatica parts

I recommend reporting this to aquatica. I believe ive seen them post here on wet pixel and i'm sure they would want to know. from my dealings with them directly they are a great company, and may even be able to get your part. Also I have had good experience with backscatter for my aquatica parts

It sounds like Aquatica may have been part of the problem, although an honest one. What was disreputable was for the dealer to promise a delivery date, then fail to deliver. It may have been an honest intent, but the dealer should have honored you with a total refund without penalty. I've had many disputes over the years, often similar to this. I always go through the credit card company to dispute these issues if the dealer pulls a fast one like this. The results have ALWAYS gone in my favor.

Good luck!

Max

You could contact your credit card company and complain about the $35. charge. I think it's called a "dispute". I'm not suprised that the dealer charged your card as most dealers are working on a very small margin when dealing with u/w camera gear. But they should of told you first, that would be GOOD business practice. As you said, you can vote with your wallet and choose another store. Now you know to ask first about payment policy and back order policy.

It is illegal.

You could contact your credit card company and complain about the $35. charge. I think it's called a "dispute".

Bingo <_<