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PC or MAC editing

Started by scubanerd ·

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PC or MAC editing

17 posts
  1. Hello all, I am trying to decide on the best editing solution for my situation. I am not trying to start a PC vs MAC discussion. I am wondering if anyone out there has experience editing HDV on both PC and MAC platforms? I am in the market to purchase a new HDV editing machine and I am torn between the PC and MAC solutions; if we take hardware out of it (I think there is plently of available horsepower in either platform) it comes down to software. Has anyone used FCP/FCE on the apple AND a PC editing option?

     

    Ryan

  2. Hi Ryan

    There are many posts on different types of NLE software to use both MAC and PC.

     

    If you want to go PC then nothing beats EDIUS for realtime mixing of HDV/DV(4.3/16.9) with effects, CC,Slow Mo and more all in real time.

     

    Encoding out at the end is very easy and making m2t files to send back to the camera is very fast with it's speed encoder. Making QT H.264, FLV, WMV is very easy as well

     

    I started out with Premiere Pro and Aspect HD but will never go back to it now as EDIUS runs rings around it when mixing formats and encoding files out.

    Edited by wagsy
  3. Hi Ryan

    There are many posts on different types of NLE software to use both MAC and PC.

     

    If you want to go PC then nothing beats EDIUS for realtime mixing of HDV/DV(4.3/16.9) with effects, CC,Slow Mo and more all in real time.

     

    Encoding out at the end is very easy and making m2t files to send back to the camera is very fast with it's speed encoder. Making QT H.264, FLV, WMV is very easy as well

     

    I started out with Premiere Pro and Aspect HD but will never go back to it now as EDIUS runs rings around it when mixing formats and encoding files out.

     

    Wagsy, thanks for the reply. I have seen and read many posts on the various NLE options; it was you actually that persuaded me to go check out Edius and you are correct, it is a great solution. If I end up going PC, Edius will be my software of choice. However, my question isn't really about Edius, I guess it is about FCP/FCE. I have never used either of them but I have always heard that MAC is the king of video editing. I have too much PC history to go completely MAC, but now that I can run a Windows XP and a Linux machine all within MAC OS I am starting to contemplate to MAC route.

     

    I need to find somone that has used both and can give a fair comparison. I can't seem to find anything about PC vs MAC video software, just PC vs MAC. I am curious if the Final Cut Studio is worth the cash, do the other softwares included (Soundtrack, shake, etc) make it all worth while.

     

    What do you use for the other parts of the final product? (music, affects, etc)

     

    Ryan

  4. Hi,

    I was raised editing on a Mac and have no experience with PCs. However, if you go with the Mac, go with Final Cut Pro rather than FCE. There are a great many sites to help with the learning curve which is no where near as steep as it once was back with the first version. I have found FCP to be extremely stable over the years and I have rarely ever had a crash. I think the last one was back two computers ago and a few years.

    Most high end NLEs will have all the features you want and need with slightly different interfaces and workflows but that's about it.

    Steve B)

  5. Unfortunately Shake is not part of the package. But it worths the price.

     

    I was not using a windows-based PC for editing, since I have only a mac. Both side has its advantage: Edius has a hardware-accelerator, but as far as I know, you can not make variable speed slow motion with Edius (at least with the v3), with FCP yes.

     

    You can look after the various Avid products, it depend on your budget. Or, you can have a Leith Velocity HQ, or an Autodesk Smoke (and you can work on Linux as well).

     

    There are several forums on the www.creativecow.com . It worths to read it (not all of them of course).

     

    I think I was not helpful, but you have got some new pages to read B)

     

    Jules

  6. Thanks for the replies and for the links; I will go check it out.

     

    After doing some additional research, it seems Final Cut Studio is quite the package. I am very interested in the products outside of Final Cut to round out the solution. Even when I was an Adobe Premier user I always wished I had better tools for music, titles and effects. In addition shake can be added to the suite to give you some extra effect and visual control. Since this is not my everyday work machine, I feel like I can try a new OS without impacting my responsibilities. If I don't like it I guess I can sell it.

     

    What is the resale market like for a MAC Pro or any MAC for that matter? I am pretty ignorant on the subject.

     

    Ryan

  7. I need to find somone that has used both and can give a fair comparison. I can't seem to find anything about PC vs MAC video software, just PC vs MAC. I am curious if the Final Cut Studio is worth the cash, do the other softwares included (Soundtrack, shake, etc) make it all worth while.

     

    What do you use for the other parts of the final product? (music, affects, etc)

     

    Ryan

     

    Started writing this the other day and did not post, sorry, some info others have mentioned (such as Shake mentioned by Jules), and I have edited the response down a bit.

     

    I have used both Premiere (not Edius) and some other video editing software on Mac and PCs, but gravitated to Mac fully for video (and pretty much everything else) awhile ago, so even though I do still run the PCs from time to time, I probably am not familiar enough with all the latest versions to provide you with exactly what you need, but can give some information that may help about Fincal Cut Studio

     

    Final Cut Studio is a great bundle (note that Shake is not part of it, and in fact has been discontinued, though speculation is that it may be revived in the new Final Cut Studio. They price drop to $499 on Shake is a deal - but note it is only the Mac Version at this price, Linux remains at $5,000. It is a great app to have if you can swing it)

     

    DVD SP 4 is a good program, though the new version (4.1 Universal Binary) has some issues, but still a very good program. Soundtrack Pro (easy to edit music for your projects and some advanced editing/looping available) and Motion are very good programs. One of the reasons I stuck with my PCs was for Acid, and Soundtrack Pro replaced that for me. Final Cut Studio also includes LiveType, though I find myself using Motion more.

     

    Compressor 2 has made great strides in its quality, prior versions were less than steller. (As an aside software encoding on the Mac is slower than PCs. When I need to encode things quicker, I launch my PC Emulator and run Cinema Craft (light version) and get between 1.5x to 2x realtime each pass)

     

    but now that I can run a Windows XP and a Linux machine all within MAC OS I am starting to contemplate to MAC route.

     

    You can actually Boot the new MacIntels into Windows, though you can also run emulators.

     

    And the iApps, iPhoto, iMovie, Garageband, iDVD are also great programs, though not the pro stuff, they come with all Macs and are are handy for throwing things together - iPhoto is a great software

     

    On the HDV side many things are real time for editing, though some things do need to get rendered, more for output rather than editing/previewing. (Color Corrrector 3-Way, Secondary Color Correction and Scaling, for instance, can all be applied and previewed in real time) on my Dual G5 2.0 Ghz Tower (this model was discontinued a couple of years ago).

     

    Rendering for final output when editing in HDV does take time depending on what you did to the footage.

     

    Of course like anything it may not be perfect, and a couple of things that Wagsy mentions as being part of Edius, such as mixing various formats in real time [16:9/4:3/DV/HDV], does look cool, but for the most part I do not find things lacking.

     

    The main thing wish was in Final Cut itself as a real time effect is a Color Channel Mixer. And the only reason for this is I recently shot in green water and found this a good tool for the problems with the footage, though the 3 Way Color Corrector also worked, just liked the Channel Mixer a bit more on some of the shots. (There is a plugin for Final Cut that is a real nice Chaneel Mixer, not too expensive, and you can see the changes in real time, but cannot playback the segments in real time, at least on my machine.)

     

    I may actually be downplaying the Final Cut Studio somewhat due to the fact that I admit I am biased towards Macs and do prefer both Macs and the software. To be able to get all the apps for $1299 or so is very well worth it. Even without Shake, there is alot of music, effects, compositing and editing that is included between the apps.

     

    As to resale values, Macs used to retain alot of their value for a long time, but the newer machines not quite as much (in fact some of the older models still command higher prices). They also do not become obsolete as quickly, I have a laptop from 1998 that is fine for word processing, emails and other things. I have an iBook from 2001 that has a 600mhz G3 chip (which was followed by G4, G5 and current Intel chips) which I still take on trips from time to time and others use the iBook daily for various things.

     

    Also the Mac OS is something you will like if you are used to Linux, it is Unix based and you have access to alot of power if you want to use the terminal (no need to use those though if you do not want to.)

  8. Ryan,

    while I was on location, I was testing out running XP sp2 with Edius on my Macbook Pro. I've been using FCP since version 1.0 and seen the great strides in that and also use Avid. I do intend to write a comparison between Edius and FCP soonish based on my tests.

    So in short this is the lowdown imho:

    1. FCP has dynamic preview (which allows scaled down real time preview), Edius does not (not the version I had).

    2. Color Correction: FCP 3 Channel and Edius Color correction are about the same, r/t (depending on computer). FCP one touch correction is a bit less effective but easy to remedy. Personally I like color finesse as a plug in... much more powerful than either.

    3. Edius has a slightly more elegant solution in capturing HDV and converting to their HQ codec. FCP still can't log and capture HDV when converting to Apple Intermediate codec, Apple's own equivalent of Canopus HQ codec. Apple's DVCPro HD interface is better than Canopus and the codec is much more optimized due to working with Panasonic.

    4. Apple's biggest advantage is the software is written and optimized for their computers. Edius has to deal with AMD, Intel chips, various motherboard, capture cards etc.

    5. Horsepower isn't the same. Apple Mac Pros are elegant solutions but graphics cards are limited to a few and not the fastest. PC motherboards allow processor upgrades. There are no such upgrades for apple computers.

    6.Important with Apple is that firewire connections work! Different computers running windows have different success with IE1394 connections. That's why our venerable Eric Cheng switched to Apple, cos he bought a camera that wouldn't connect to his IBM laptop reliably. That and also the fact he's really just a techno geek and likes shiney new toys. :)

    7.Also remember think long term. Once you start using a software package and get use to it, unless you regularly use other programs as well, you'll find switching isn't easy. I've jumped from Premiere to FCP with waylays to AVID. Now that Adobe has announced Premiere for Apple, I can say it has improved quite a bit from the old interface and optimized for the intel chip. Unfortunately I didn't have the beta with me for a 3 way comparison.

  9. Go professor Drew....you have been busy.

    Look forward to reading your review.

     

    Do you know of a shake program to run on a PC?

     

    I'm sitting here cutting some Turtle stuff together for a overseas company.

    I have raw m2t, 1440/1080 Canopus HQ, upconverted-DV4.3,(scaled to look 16.9) & DV 16.9 all mixed together on one timeline.

  10. .

    5. Horsepower isn't the same. Apple Mac Pros are elegant solutions but graphics cards are limited to a few and not the fastest. PC motherboards allow processor upgrades. There are no such upgrades for apple computers.

     

     

    Did not know if you saw people were changing processors (all non-official) when the first MacIntel Towers came out and some other info like this http://anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2832&p=6. Will be interesting to see if any become officially available

     

    And though the graphics cards are limited, they are not too bad :) Hopefully Leopard and an updated version of Final Cut Studio will boost things more.

  11. Do you know of a shake program to run on a PC?
    Deshaker for VirtualDub.

     

    Have not tried it, but read a bit about it.

     

    More infor here: Deshaker

  12. Is it true that 'Shake' will only work on a SD work flow not HDV..??

     

    Read that somewhere...

     

    Dive safe

     

    DeanB

  13. Is it true that 'Shake' will only work on a SD work flow not HDV..??

     

    Read that somewhere...

     

    Dive safe

     

    DeanB

     

    The documentation with Shake is very clear in this point - Page 161 - does not support HDV

     

    The documentation with Shake is also wrong, or my MacBook Pro with Shake running HDV clips is a freak of nature :)

     

    All kidding aside (even though the above is true), it says not supported but it works

  14. Is it true that 'Shake' will only work on a SD work flow not HDV..??

     

    Read that somewhere...

     

    Dive safe

     

    DeanB

     

     

    The first question is: what do you mean what is the definition of work <_<

     

    Well, I used HDV in Shake. It will works but it will not do a good job. Why? Because HDV is a long GOP codec mpeg2. Shake (designed for the feature film world) prefers the uncompressed material. It does not depend of its nature. It can be standard resolution (SD) or 4k. HDV in this meaning works well, because the HDV uses a variant of the HD (high definiton) resolution (1080i, 720p etc.) It does not matter.

     

    The matter is a codec you are using for coding and decoding the video-signal. If the codec is uncompressed or it has a little compression (like DVCPRO-HD) it will work fine. The substance: please not use a long GOP codec in Shake. Use an I-frame (Intra-frame) codec. At the case of a long-GOP, from 12 or 15 frames only one is a "full" frame, the others contains only the difference from the original frame. So how should Shake do well a SmoothCam node, if the apps meet such a frames. :) In the uncompressed version, as the name tells, each frame is a full frame. Tha apps can work well.

     

    So, as a wrap-up: you can use HDV in Shake, but you should use an HDV which utilizes an I-frame codec, not a long-GOP codec.

     

    I hope I was clear.

     

    And: before apply any node, it is recommended (or obligatory) to deinterlace the footage.

     

    And: all the best,

    Jules

     

    And: only v2.1 or something like that can run under windows. The only rational way: buy an intel mac for NLE and visual effects, and if you depend on a specific application, you can still run windows on the mac. Vica-versa is not working.

     

    And: no more "and" :lol:

  15. Kituno Jules

    except that HDV is interframe long GOP. As long as you convert HDV to any Intra-frame codec that is recognized by Shake (eg Apple Intermediate Codec, Cineon, DVCProHD) it will work.

    As for Mac Pros running XP, PCs can also run OSX and they are cheaper too, albeit a little more limited and not to mention against Apple policy

     

    PC running OSX

    Edited by Drew
  16. I went searching and found one called Steady Hand by DynaPel

     

    Works with DV material but not m2t or Canopus HQ. :)

  17. Thanks for the clarification, Drew.

     

    Well, last september, when I bought by 2xCore2Duo mac pro, the mac pro was cheaper about 300-500 bucks than an equivalent HP workstation. So why should I choose not a mac :)

     

    Jules

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