Differences in printing papers

Has anyone come across amy type of tabulated comparison between different types of printing papers, comparing the different gamuts of each paper, and subject suitability etc.?

For example, Epson Velvet Fine Art has a much narrower gamut than Photo Glossy for example. I cannot find any comparisons like this on Epson's website

Try here:

Dry Creek

Thanks,This was very helpful.

Contrast ratios of glossy vs Epson Velvet luster or Semi-Matte are much higher. Time to move to some glossy or semi-gloss papers I think.

Try here:

 

Dry Creek

If you like the idea of a fibre-based gloss paper rather than resin-coated, you might like to try Crane and Co's Museo silver rag, or Innova's Fibra print Gloss. Silver Rag has no optical brightners so should be more stable over time but isn't as white, Fibra print is whiter, but users brightners which will go off eventually, in theory anyway. Both have great DMAX compared to RC papers.

What printer do you use? Do you find that their printer profiles work well? I have been struggling to get my B&W prints to 'pop' the way they do on screen.

If you like the idea of a fibre-based gloss paper rather than resin-coated, you might like to try Crane and Co's Museo silver rag, or Innova's Fibra print Gloss. Silver Rag has no optical brightners so should be more stable over time but isn't as white, Fibra print is whiter, but users brightners which will go off eventually, in theory anyway. Both have great DMAX compared to RC papers.

What printer do you use? Do you find that their printer profiles work well? I have been struggling to get my B&W prints to 'pop' the way they do on screen.

Unfortunaley no reflective print will "pop" like the transmitted light of a monitor, but a paper with good DMAX will help you a lot, and if you want the best apparent contrast, you might choose Fibra Print due to its whiter base, although I prefer Silver Rag myself. I had some consistency problems with both products in early batches, but the more recent stuff seems fine.

I use an Epson 9800 and run Ilford Studio RIP software, with profiles and printer setup files provided by Ilford for their paper stocks - but Silver Rag and Fibraprint both work a treat using the Ilford Pearl media settings on the RIP, but I still soft proof using the Museo and Fibraprint icc profiles.

Some inksets don't do black and white as well as the Ultrachrome K3, if you have less than three levels of black, banding usually becomes one issue, and also colour casts. I had a 9600 with K2 Inks an black and whites were terrible.

Do you soft proof? (In Photoshop got to View>proof setup)

I've ordered some Museo paper, and I'll give it a shot. I've got an exhibition of some prints coming up in a few weeks.

I do soft proof, but as you say, it's hard to get the reflected appearance to simulate the transmitted light of the monitor.

I have the Epson 4800 with K3 Ultrachrome. I have not tried any other RIP software yet. I will try using Museo profiles initially. The ColorByte RIP software has been recommended; a little pricey, but sooner or later I think I will have to bite the bullet.

Thanks for your help. I'll let you know how I progress.

I get my Silver Rag from Jeremy at Image Science. He has some profiles for Silver Rag that he has made, he calls them "stock" profiles, and they are AUD$15 each (Aussies note they are free if you buy a roll of paper).

They are probably better than the canned profiles, but not as good as a custom profile for your printer, which Jeremy can do for you (and other folks can do too). At AUD$75 Jeremy's custom profiles are a pretty good price though.

You can see info about his stock profiles here and you'll see a link on that page to his custom profile info.

BTW, the Silver Rag is very stiff, so you might have to increase the platen gap a bit if you are using a roll rather than a sheet. This can be a little annoying at times, but the stiffness makes hinging it behind a matt an absolute dream, it just won't wrinkle.

darren

I ordered my paper from InkJet Art, and they appear to charge $25 for custom profiles, I may give them a try.

http://www.inkjetart.com/custom_profiles/

Do you see any difference?

I ordered my paper from InkJet Art, and they appear to charge $25 for custom profiles, I may give them a try.

http://www.inkjetart.com/custom_profiles/

Do you see any difference?

I think there are lots of varibales, mainly down to individual heads, but you should see the difference between the canned profile and a custom one.

If prints are for exhibition it is important to judge the glossyness of the final print/paper behind the exhibition glass. There is no point having a paper that looks great on your desk - but once behind glass looks too reflective.

Alex

If prints are for exhibition it is important to judge the glossyness of the final print/paper behind the exhibition glass. There is no point having a paper that looks great on your desk - but once behind glass looks too reflective.

 

Alex

Good (some say bad) news is the K3 Inkset on any substrate can't make anything near as smooth and shiny as a hi gloss ciba or fuji crystal archive chromogenic print. These so-called "glossy fine art" papers are really more a semi-gloss, which look great under glass in exhibition conditions. I find the coating on the Silver Rag and the Fibra print both to eliminate "gloss differential" the annoying inkjet effect where the substrate is glossier than the ink, and the final print therefore not havinga continuous smooth surface.

The whole gloss/matt terminology has been a bit crazy of late, exacerbated by manufacturers that want to sell you the likes of "matt surfaced gloss paper", which I think means a stippled/lustre/low reflectivity surface (the matt part) on a resin-coated (as opposed to raw paper/fine art) base (their "gloss" part).

And yes, Alex is spot on, if you're that keen as it seems you are, always assess the final print under display conditions... not just under glass but under similar light that you have in the display space.

And while they seem to be dry off the printer, K3 prints need a couple of days to really cure, so if you have the time, do a batch of test prints, let them sit, then assess them and adjust and re-test.

Also, while I am confident with my monitor/soft proof/output loop - it gets me very close, often spot on - nothing is as accurate as a test print, just like those good ol' days.

Have fun, and if you're doing a bunch of prints, don't forget to budget in a couple of throw-aways due to paper irregularities etc its the nature of fine art, and particularly cotton rag papers. While its not my taste personally, some folks in art circles like the "flaws" as it makes each print an individual piece.

and don't sit up too late, assessing prints through half-closed eyes ain't that successful.

Yes, this is a whole different ballgame from the days of pushing multigrade paper around in the developer under a red light. I never really considered the 'limiting' effects of matt vs glossy paper on expressing tonal range; but then dealing with limited tonal range was not as much of an issue as it seems to be with b&w underwater where low viz and often less contrasty light is often an issue.

Still a lot of fun though, even though I no longer have a hot blonde, hanging out with me in the darkroom. My wife does not think pouring over the Epson Stylus is too exciting.

Hi Darren,

I just rolled off a couple of prints with Museo Silver Rag; just using Epson Premium SemiGloss profile. The difference is amazing. Thanks for the advice. I love the finish on this paper. Now I'm sending off some targets for custom profiles.

Thanks.

good news. let us know if the custom profiling shows an improvement. darren

Hey Darren,

Ive done some black & white prints with the custom profiles; the match now between monitor and print is pretty close for 'government work'. I've got a couple of prints accepted for a fine art nude exhibition, and I have to say they look pretty good. I'll be sticking with this paper for a while. Thanks for your help.

Jeff

me too. I have heard that Ilford is bringing out a fibre-based product soon, I will be checking that out when it is available.

darren