Macro musings

Hi Guys,

I have been looking around for a replacement lens for my Nikkor 2.8 60mm micro, for my Nikon D70S.

I would like to know if there are any other lenses 'out there' with "as good" or better optics?

Here's the sticking point; it must have internal focusing!

I am using the Z-22 ring flash with custom ports, etc., and I'm having some issues with vignetting.

Next issue is my lack of understanding of the maximum Fstop of the lenses. If I compare two lenses from maybe two different manufacturers and the first lens is F2.8 and the second is F3.5, how much difference will this make to macro shooting?

I know that one lens is not as 'fast' as the other and that the same lens is not as 'bright' as the other, BUT, when using macro Fstops of around F16 to F25, how does this affect the images??

Thanks for taking the time,

Bruce

The 60mm is a tack sharp lens. (shoots closer to what a 105mm does on a film camera with the digital crop factor of 1.5x).

f/32 on the 60mm moves to f/64 when you're focusing down to 1 to 1 because of the "bellows affect" as the lens lengthens. The aperture stays the same size but the amount of light reaching it diminishes by 2 stops.

Going from f/2.8 to f/3.5 could diminish your D70s Autofocus speed a little bit. A focus light is helpful with any macro lens as long as it doesn't spook your subject. The other thing to look at is how many blades does the aperture have (the closer to round, the better the out of focus area will look).

hmmm, internal focusing (meaning the macro lens can do 1-to-1 with out a extension tube or meaning the lens length doesn't change?). If you mean the lens length doesn't change, you'll have to look at the new nikkor 105mm macro instead of the 60mm. (another thread covers that pretty throughly)

Vinetting with a ring flash. Show an example uw image and maybe a (front view from 45 degrees) picture of the camera in the housing with the ring flash port attached and 60mm lens focused at 1-to-1 and 1-to-6. I've never had a vinetting problem with the 60mm or 105mm (film or d200) when shooting a pair of strobes. I normally shoot f/22 or f/16. (I did notice a different behavior on my d200 compared to my n90s. If you're focused at 24" with f/32 and then focus to 1-to-1 the camera compensates for the bellows affect and still reads f/32; you can dial the aperture smaller to f/57 with the 60mm once you're focused at 1-to-1.)

Take Care,

ChrisS

Bruce -

we need to convince INON to make a z22 with a larger opening to hold a 60mm port...that is the problem. Maybe Peter can machine the z22 to make the inner diameter larger...but that could ruin a 1500$$ strobe!!!

M.

Hi,

Z-22 mount on front of an appr. 90mm (out)diameter macro port (he mentioned custom made) & I think dia. of 60mm Nikkor lens is appr. 70mm (use 62mm filter)& I think there is no space to put 60mm to the end of port & lens stay behind of ring flash & it makes vinetting ?? I am not aware of slim/short macro lens for this problem & old 105mm with close-up lens is an option.

Sam

Hi Guys,

I have been looking around for a replacement lens for my Nikkor 2.8 60mm micro, for my Nikon D70S.

I would like to know if there are any other lenses 'out there' with "as good" or better optics?

I don't think you will find a better optic than the 60mm macro lens. I have heard many knowledgeable people say that this is Nikon's sharpest lens. Its fantastic. It focuses fast too for a non-AFS lens. What is the problem with the 60mm?

The only shortcoming of the 60mm is focal length. Its perfect for mid-sized fish portraits, but if you want the really small stuff, then you want a longer focal length to get some working distance. The 105mm is almost (but not quite) as sharp as the 60mm costs more and doesn't focus as well (despite being AFS) as the 60mm. But it lets you get higher magnification on skittish or hard-to-light subjects. You can also use it with diopters to get more than 1:1. Diopters on a 60mm mean you practically have to crush your subject with the port to get more than 1:1.

So if you are looking for another macro lens in ADDITION to the 60. try the 105mm. Its a great lens too, but its not an upgrade to the 60mm. The new 105mm is IF and although it has a 62mm front thread like the 60mm, I don't think it will vignette with the new 105mm. I have seen others that used the old 105mm with this flash (Martin Edge's Book) and apparently it works fine. The New 105mm works fine I know with 52mm diopters and reversed 52mm threaded lenses. So I'd bet it does not vignette with the ring flash, provided it physically fits your port.

Next issue is my lack of understanding of the maximum Fstop of the lenses. If I compare two lenses from maybe two different manufacturers and the first lens is F2.8 and the second is F3.5, how much difference will this make to macro shooting?

I know that one lens is not as 'fast' as the other and that the same lens is not as 'bright' as the other, BUT, when using macro Fstops of around F16 to F25, how does this affect the images??

For practical purposes you will almost never shoot at macro distances at a wide open aperture. At F2:8 and close to 1:1 almost nothing will be in focus. You will almost always be at F11 or higher to get DOF. So you might think that F3.5 or F2.8 won't matter. In fact, lenses with a wider maximum aperture tend to perform better even at reduced apertures. So without knowing anything about the lens I'd bet that the F2.8 lens will be sharper at F3.5 on up. But the main difference is in focusing ability. The camera focuses with the aperture wide open, then stops down when you press the shutter. So, the wider the aperture the faster it will focus esp. in low light i.e. underwater.

Most of the time the argument in favor of a 60mm macro lens is that it is more flexible with shooting larger objects you may come across on the same dive. However, if you're dedicated enough to macro to buy a ring flash then I see only one reason to still aim for the 60mm, diving in very poor visibility were every cm extra peasoup between lens and object matters. If this is not your situation then the 105mm would be worth considering.

Bart

Bruce,

In land photography convention is that longer focal length lenses allow not only better working distance but also because of a narrower angle of view allow much better isolation of the macro subject. Assuming that is what your trying to do when you go very small. I shoot a Nikon 200mm micro and a 300mm prime that I use with extension tubes on land. Underwater long configurations reach a point of diminishing return with more light needed because of working distance and a longer port extension needed to accomodate the 200mm. I have avoided third party lenses but recently Sigma has built a 150mm macro with an f2.8 aperture that interests me. Its an internal focus HSM lens so along with its bright aperture it autofocuses relatively fast. I own the Nikon 60mm micro and the old version Nikon 105 micro with teleconverter that I like to use underwater and I think that they are very good lenses but this new Sigma may provide me with a lens that works as well underwater as on land with a little bit more reach and narrower angle of view. It even has a removeable tripod collar which really helps me when land shooting since I use a tripod 99% on land. I was also surprised at how well constructed this lens is. It is going to be my next purchase for underwater macro/closeup work. I know some folks don't like such a long focal lengths underwater given the narrow depth of field and its does take more time to set up a shot but I have gotten use to this shooting style for small stuff and recommnend going long with as long a focal length as tolerable. Just a thought. Andy

Hi Guys,

I have been looking around for a replacement lens for my Nikkor 2.8 60mm micro, for my Nikon D70S.

I would like to know if there are any other lenses 'out there' with "as good" or better optics?

Here's the sticking point; it must have internal focusing!

I am using the Z-22 ring flash with custom ports, etc., and I'm having some issues with vignetting.

 

Next issue is my lack of understanding of the maximum Fstop of the lenses. If I compare two lenses from maybe two different manufacturers and the first lens is F2.8 and the second is F3.5, how much difference will this make to macro shooting?

I know that one lens is not as 'fast' as the other and that the same lens is not as 'bright' as the other, BUT, when using macro Fstops of around F16 to F25, how does this affect the images??

 

Thanks for taking the time,

 

Bruce

Don't know about the Nikon, but using the Canon 60 and a Pete Ladell made custom port for the z22, i see no vignetting at all. In terms of maximum aperture, as discussed it won't make a difference at all except for perhaps low light autofocus and that is pretty much determined more by the camera body than the lens and a focus light would solve the problem. Is the port too long? and that's why you get some vignetting>

A shorter port would help.

BIll

Hi Guys,

Sorry I haven't returned for a while, I was checking things out with the lens and ring-flash.

Ok, results are in,

No problems at all u/w with the vignetting; no idea as to where it came from last time...

Unless I can dull this flash down, the experiments are over; I am running two layers of frosted tape over the flash tubes and the diffuser in place with camera settings of F16-25, S/S 1/500 and it is still over exposing pics...

My dive sites also suffer from "extreme detritus" and you should see the amount of backscatter this thing produces...

BTW, my subjects are very small sea-horses in very weedy hiding places and I am using the 60mm micro lens with the Inon #3 close-up lens attached to the front of the ring-flash...

My Instructor Trainer drilled it into me that there is "no such thing as a bad student, only bad teachers", and I now teach my kids the same thing....so there is no use blaming all the toys that I have for my images...

S.O.S....please help?...

..some medicinal scotch might help; I will go and check the cupboard while I wait for your replies...

Thanks for taking the time guys,

Bruce

Are you running the quadflash at 1/4 power as well. With the diffuser and 1/100 second on 1/4 power I get between f11 adn f16 for perfect exposure at least in PNG. If I look at the stuff I shot in Lembeh with this setup, most of the shots were at f11 also and there was some pretty ugly water there.

Bill