New Sony HDR-HC7 review on camcorderinfo.com

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Sony-...rder-Review.htm

Kind of negative on low light performance...

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Sony-...rder-Review.htm

 

Kind of negative on low light performance...

wow, that's dissapointing. guess it'll be at least another year of my ancient cam (and another year to keep saving!).

Well it's best not to put too much faith in a review where the writer does not know the difference between DV25 (4:1:1 and 4:2:0) vs DV50(4:2:2) colorspace.

He also compares the image with cameras like the Panasonic SD1 that haven't been tested yet by him, yet sound almost definitive. His comparison of AVCHD and HDV25 is also slightly flawed as AVCHD is MPEG4 based and quite different from the MPEG2 derived HDV19,25,30. To just say that bitrate of 13mbps is inferior to 25mbps is just a bit oversimplification. Although it is true that AVCHD does not have the same quality picture yet, it will in a bit faster bitrate. AVC Intra is 50mbps and holds up very well against 100mbps DVCPro HD.

Well it's best not to put too much faith in a review where the writer does not know the difference between DV25 (4:1:1 and 4:2:0) vs DV50(4:2:2) colorspace.

He also compares the image with cameras like the Panasonic SD1 that haven't been tested yet by him, yet sound almost definitive. His comparison of AVCHD and HDV25 is also slightly flawed as AVCHD is MPEG4 based and quite different from the MPEG2 derived HDV19,25,30. To just say that bitrate of 13mbps is inferior to 25mbps is just a bit oversimplification. Although it is true that AVCHD does not have the same quality picture,it will in a bit faster bitrate. AVC Intra is 50mbps and holds up very well against 100mbps DVCPro HD.

I'm mostly concerned with the low light performance. Since they were comparing that to the hc-3, it seems like they knew what they were talking about. I hope I'm wrong, I'd love to be wrong, that way i can go buy the hc-7!

It does sound a negative review. I think the direct low light comparison between the HC3 and the HC7 is enough in itself to be wary of this cam for underwater use, despite the reviewer not being as knowlegable as they should have been on the techincal stuff as Drew pointed out.

They do seem hyped about the Canon HV20 at the moment though. As that cam does not have a LANC control would it be limited to housings with manual controls only? If so it would massively limit the number of options and probably make it a non starter for many.

The top end consumer/low end prosumer range for uw use has been a real pain in the backside since HDV was introduced. I keep hoping that something will jump up and say 'buy me, buy me', but they all seem to have just enough flaws to stop that from happening

Cheers, Simon

There are various other threads where folks have done side by side comparisons of the HC3 and HC7 and come up with different conclusions. Here is one example:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....p;#post10090176

You know, I'm not sure what to think about Camcorderinfo.com. They seem to be a good resource for news and product info, but they are often negative in their reviews and I don't always agree. I visit their site often but take what they say with a grain of salt.

Personally, I tend to discount sources that never seem to have anything positive to say. You know, the always negative types. I'm sure they think that being critical is a good service to their readers but they seem to think they are above the "consumer" cameras they review and there is always something terribly wrong. Is anything good enough for them? And does that mean that it's not good enough for you?

Danb

I'm mostly concerned with the low light performance. Since they were comparing that to the hc-3, it seems like they knew what they were talking about. I hope I'm wrong, I'd love to be wrong, that way i can go buy the hc-7!

Well that's the point I'm trying to make. Who shoots in full auto? If Sony changed the priorities of the DSP from the HC3 to HC7, you get a different look with the same scene. Shooting a resolution chart doesn't convey shutter speed, exposure and gain, all of which is tossed around in the DSP to give the picture the programmers think they want.

The only way to test the sensitivity of the sensors is to set shutter and exposure manually. Notice I didn't say aperture since Sony puts exposure instead of aperture settings on its smaller cameras. By setting it to manual you can then see the difference in gain management. It also removes a lot more variables.

Danny

Errr consumer camcorders are not good enough for anyone except Paris Hilton. I don't mind the attitude of nothing is good enough, especially if it isn't. Thing is at least have an idea of what they are talking about before writing a "review".

well all this argument about low-light performance on HC7 vs HC3 is moot for underwater users since the housing choices available that can be considered is limited. what i want is a small size HDV camcorder that has housings with manual white balance control. i'm trying very hard here to select a camcorder & housing combo that's not big i.e. hard to travel with to remote places. this is what i think about the choices available

amphibico - non-starter no MWB, except for the A1

gates - non-starter no MWB for HC3, no news yet about housing for HC5 or HC7

light & motion - has MWB for HC3 with WA optics. price starts at USD3000

ikelite - has MWB for HC3, but optics limited to screw-on wet lens. Inon UWL100 can give view of 94 degrees but is there any drawback in using wet-lens?

anybody has any thoughts on this? is this a fair consensus on what's out there for small size HDV camcorder?

rgds

syam

Sony-HC1000e & Amphibico Invader

amphibico - non-starter no MWB, except for the A1

 

gates - non-starter no MWB for HC3, no news yet about housing for HC5 or HC7

 

light & motion - has MWB for HC3 with WA optics. price starts at USD3000

 

ikelite - has MWB for HC3, but optics limited to screw-on wet lens. Inon UWL100 can give view of 94 degrees but is there any drawback in using wet-lens?

 

anybody has any thoughts on this? is this a fair consensus on what's out there for small size HDV camcorder

The HC3/5/7 will fit in the TopDawg II housing. But no MWB. According to what I've read recently they will offer it in a couple of months via a circuit board upgrade.

Also there's the Ocean Images HC3 housing. It does MWB by hitting the open LCD with a control rod. I know they're doing a housing for the HC7 as my friend just bought one. It's not particularly small though.

Smallest/Lightest I've seen has to be the SeaTool. It does White Balance Shift??

Mike @H2OPhotopros said the Gates HC7 is out in about two months.

For what it's worth, I have an HC7 and have just been trying it underwater in a Top Dawg II and a USVH. No MWB, but I've had reasonable success with correcting in post. I've not had the chance to look at the UW footage on an HD screen yet, but I've downloaded and edited some in SD and it looks pretty good to me (although uw vis was not good).

I havn't done any exhaustive tests, but I'm also not sure that the lowlight performance is as bad as has been made out in the CCI review. If you look around in www.sonyhdvinfo.com forums, there are several HC7 owners who had the HC3 and disagree strongly on the low-light conclusions.

Its all subjective again...

One mans tomato is a fruit when anothers is a vegatable blah de blah blah..

In water conditions and geography always differ from one place to another as in how high the sun is and if there was any at all. Low light is calculated on what basis...How low the light is maybe.

This argument will go on...

I love the A1.............For now

Dive safe

Dean(A1)B

For what it's worth, I have an HC7 and have just been trying it underwater in a Top Dawg II and a USVH. No MWB, but I've had reasonable success with correcting in post. I've not had the chance to look at the UW footage on an HD screen yet, but I've downloaded and edited some in SD and it looks pretty good to me (although uw vis was not good).

 

I havn't done any exhaustive tests, but I'm also not sure that the lowlight performance is as bad as has been made out in the CCI review. If you look around in www.sonyhdvinfo.com forums, there are several HC7 owners who had the HC3 and disagree strongly on the low-light conclusions.

Fergus,

That is good to hear, please keep us posted as you get more UW time with the HC7. A week ago I placed my order with Warren for the HC7 housing and a new set of lights. Should be ready the end of May, so I can take them to Cocos, CR.

divedude... love to hear feedback from you on your HC7 & housing. I'm leaning towards a HC7 as well with the same thoughts. Got a Cocos trip coming up in Aug and thinking that video would be better than stills for this trip (if I get a video kit up and running and get up to speed using it before then!)

pakman,

I'll be happy to give a report when I get back. My trip is on the Sea Hunter, June 22 - July 4. This will be my 4th trip and each with a different format - 35 slides, HI-8, DV and now HDV. Cocos is the reason I got into video, there is so much big animal action out there and I feel video is the way to capture it.