Pay Pal

Hi folks,

Does anyone know if you, as a seller, have protective rights using Pay Pal? I read somewhere on this forum that it could be easy to "pull back" your money once the receiver "says" he/she never received the goods. Last week I sold one of my D100's to a guy in the U.S. and he paid via Pay Pal. I sent it with delivery confirmation. He tried to say that he never got it and was going to pull back his Pay Pay payment. I told him that I have delivery confirmation and he quickly backed off saying that his wife received it and didn't tell him. Thus in this case, does that delivery confirmation provide me some leverage with Pay Pal? I mean, is it that easy for someone to simply "decide" they don't want to pay for the item and pull their money back? I'd think there are protocols in place to protect both the buyer and the seller from scammers. Any feedback is welcome.

Joe

Joe,

I haven't had this happen, but a friend did and he got screwed.......So I have mostly conquered this dilemma with a two pronged approach:

1) I only ship UPS or FedEx for items over a certain $$$$ amount, and insure it. Clearly stated in my ads....

2) I "sweep" any payment out of my PayPal account s soon as it's made. Although I've been told as you relate a buyer can "debit" the payment back (???)

I have had some friends even create a separate free checking account they then take it out right away (as in cash) leaving zippo in there, but I don't know for sure if this works to foil scammers wanting a refund.

From my Ebay / PayPal experiences I've found there are lots of paranoid people out there, plus those who rush to judgement on both seller and buyer's sides.

I will also not ship to someone who won't give me a phone number(s) to call. I usually even talk to them (weekends / evenings are free on most cell plans) and this has pretty much eliminated problems....

Not sure if I helped you......

dhaas

there is a simple way to find out....

if i send you $1 and you get it into your bank account, can i get it back?

If required we could tell Paypal you promised to sing a song down the phone for me and i never received it!

I know that one of the guys from L&M got stung for his D2x housing, payment cleared then it was said that the CC was stolen, this was through paypal and wp i believe. So in effect if i got you to send your 'song' to an unverified address (i've just moved house so i would be doing) could i say that someone hacked my account and used my cc without my knowledge. I'm not willing to commit fraud for our little test though!

I think there's a big grey area as to what the CC company are willing to do when it comes to paypal, i know my folks got the CC company to get their money back for a Flatscreen TV, which was a genuinely bogus listing. But then i've also seen that cc companies will not touch paypal as they are providing a money transfer service.

If someone decides to be a shit and say that your goods were not in the box/broken then i guess it's your word against theirs, and if they paid by credit card then you may well lose out. Ebay sucks......

EDIT - If it was my thread about sending things to Poland that you read, everything went through OK, it was just my carrier taking 12 days to move it 70 miles in the UK that messed it up.

I have generally had pretty good experience with Paypal. I have been ripped off twice through EBay (you'd think I'd learn ) but then again, I've sold and bought quite a bit of stuff, including strobes, lenses, and cameras.

Pay with a credit card (Paypal discourages this once you set up a bank account with them, by making using your bank account the default payment mode, but it just makes one extra step in the transaction) That way if you do not receive the goods, your credit card company should cover you. Check their online policy; when mine tried to deny a claim on a big fraud scam that even involved the FBI, I had to point out their "zero liability for internet fraud" statement which was online. They covered me, but tried to push me to chase Paypal instead. However, if the goods are fake (like media cards) or damaged, your credit card company may not cover you. The response from mine on a fake CF card was "you received something" , so not our problem. Paypal did cover the fraud, and EBay shut the crook down. Remember who owns Paypal (EBay).

If buying on EBay, buy only from sellers with a lot of positive feedback, and check what the feedback is on. Fraudsters set up a good reputation selling small ticket items, then make their move with expensive goods that are non-existent. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is a fraud. Avoid three day auctions on electronics. Get a phone number if anything seems slow arriving by contacting EBay.

If selling, be sure to clear out your account once money is deposited. Insure all shipments. (some cheaper methods of shipping don't allow insurance.) Refuse to ship without, and require delivery confirmation. Paypal will require documentation so that you are covered. Don't be convinced by a buyer to send without insurance or delivery confirmation. Do not ship to some countries. (I don't wish to upset anyone, but there are some larger percentages of fraudsters in certain areas of the planet; PM me if you want to know)

My big complaint with Paypal is with currency exchange rates. They discount the rate to their benefit excessively.

Cheers,

Marli

Scubamarli pretty much nails it. I'd add that you can now get a Paypal Credit Card and there is suppose to be greater buyer protection using that. I know with either the buyer can issue a fraud claim but I don't know of any way the buyer can retrieve those funds once they're issued. I have purchased and sold several hundred things over the years through Ebay. I've been ripped off once (too good to be true, no feedback but it was low dollar). As big a problem as being ripped off is...ie no product delivered when you purchase, there are other problems of stuff that is way overhyped (as-new etc) or doesn't work when you receive it or damaged. Typically the seller feigns ignorance about the condition of the item. "I'm selling this for my sister's husband's brother and don't know anything about it". Overall, Ebay has been a good conduit as long as you use some common sense as both a buyer and seller.

1. Use your paypal credit card, or other credit card to make paypal purchases. There's greater protection for larger ticket items should a seller scam you.

2. Only ship to places with reputable shippers that insure products.

3. Sometimes too-good-to-be-true is just that, other times you get a Cobra dive computer and Scuba pro G550, MK20 and R390 octo all for $300 (My best deal to date).

4. Your best deals will always be "newly listed" and under "buy it now". People just wanting to get a little cash for something they had lying around a couple of years.

5. Beware of the bait and switch. Some people show photos of items not included in the "listing". They'll usually include this photo to entice unsuspecting bidders to overpay for the items. To protect themselves, they usually have in fine print "only items listed in the description are included".

6. If you're a seller, always stay in contact with your buyer. There's nothing worse as a buyer than shelling out $200 and not hearing from the seller for a week. This also gives the buyer a sense of comfort and affords the seller more leeway from the buyer.

7. If you're a buyer, (most risk in my opinion) and you want to make big ticket purchases the Paypal credit card only protects you up to so much. Check to make sure the Seller feedback is good. If there's no, or little feedback, the item will be cheaper but your risk is higher.

Tip - search ebay items within 100miles and you might find a great deal you can pick up..ie inspect before you buy.

If the buyer call the card center claimed that the card was stolen and being used by somebody to buy staffs, Paypal will be charged back by card company. Paypal will draw $ from your card account too.