getting into water h2o photography. what do i need?

i've been a hobby photographer for years, using mainly the "prosumer" model digital camera and recently moving on the dslr a couple years ago. as for diving, i've just gotten into the sport not long ago. i've logged about 40 dives in rough california waters and am comfortable with all aspects of recreational diving. ok, i'll admit it. even though everyone tells me not to worry about it and should actually look forward to it, i'm not looking forward to my first shard encounter. i know i'll just freak out, lol. the jaws movies must have tramatized me as a kit.

in any case, i'm not sure where to start to gain knowledge for underwater photography, so if kind sirs and ladies in here can point me in the right direction, i'd be greatly appreciated.

from the brief read here, i understand i will need the housing (of course), a port (different ports for different lenses i presume), strobes, and arms for the strobes. there are several brands, but the majority i see here are sea and sea (which i see a lot when i go on dives) and ikelite (which i also see a lot). apart from price, what are the pros and cons of each brand? as for strobes, for california waters where visbility is not always great, what do you recommend?

i shoot with a nikon d80 right now. the lenses i use now are:

1. nikon 28-70/2.8

2. sigma 30/1.4

3. nikon 50/1.4

4. nikon micro 60/2.8

4. nikon 70-200/2.8 vr

5. nikon 70-300/2.8 vr

6. nikon 85/1.4

7. nikon micro 105/2.8 vr

i plan on picking up a tokina 10-17mm FE soon for a specific shoot i'll be doing next weekend. i actually found this forum doing a search of the lens on the web. i see that many of you are very enthusiastic about this lens. for now, i think i will shoot mostly landscapes type photos (i love cali's rock formations and corals although they are not very colorful). which other lens in my collection will you recommend me use underwater? can i use the 70-200vr underwater if i want to take photos of fish that don't like me getting close (it's a pretty long lens, physically)? can you recommend me a housing/port setup based on the 2 lenses (tok 10-17FE and the nikon 70-200vr if possible).

another question is have is how you guys compose photographys? i imagine it must be difficult to look through the view finder with the mask on--espeically if a really WA lens is used like the tokina FE zoom. is there some kind of view finder extention?

finally, if you guys can recommend some good reading for me that would be awesome. i'll have about 5 chances to practice before my girlfriend and i take a tropical diving trip. any pointer and suggestions is appreciated.

thanks guys!!!

Hi and welcome to this great (and quit expensive) hobby.

You have a lot of questions so I'll try to help a little, others will probably add more.

- Lens: the most used lens here are the macro that you already have: 60 & 105 mm. and the WA like the 10-17 that you are going to buy, so at this point you are settle. the 70-200 its not very useful U/W lens, i'm not sute if its possible ho house it

- Housing: Ikelite is probably the less expensive one, its made from polycarbonate, the more expensive ones usually made from metal (S&S are made from metal and some housing part of them are plastic also) there are few threads about this issue here in the DSLR section.

- Strobes: again there are more then one choice, the Ikelite 125 is very popular, its have I-ttl capabilities when working with Ike's housing, also there are the Inons that are smaller but some don't like their light temp, I personally uses the SB 105 since they are very cheep this days and I can buy 3 of them in one 125 price.

- Reading: there where few threads about this issue, I can't find it now, impersonally I like Essential Guide to Composition - Jim Church, The Nature Photographer's Complete Guide to Professional Field Techniques, John Shaw (not u/w book) & Martin Edge's "The Underwater Photographer"

sy0296, the fist rule of underwater photography is: Get Close Mo matter what you are takeing a picture of you will need be less than 3 ft away from it. Unlike in land, there is no such thing as Telephoto photography underwater. If a fish at first does not want to let you get close, you have to learn to make friends with it. Everything is either Close focus Wide Angle, or it is Macro.

It sounds like you (will) have all of the lenses you need.

A two lens setup would be:

10-17 (For Landscape, Divers, Marine Mamals, and Fish larger than 2')

60mm macro (for subjects between 6" and 2' in size (you can in theory shoot smaller subjects but the working distance is so small it is difficult))

and if you decided to house a third lens

105 macro with close up lens (aka diopter) (for subjects between 1" and 6")

The D80 is a fine camera, but if you think you are going to feal the urge to upgrade in the next couple of years, I'd recomend you do it now as it becomes much more difficult (costly) to upgrade after you have a housing.

Composing through the viewfinder is not that bad once you get used to it. But you do have to get used to it. Though for wide angle I often shoot from the hip, because there is so much DOF that focus is not critical and with 180 degree view it is difficult to miss. If it worries you though, some housing manufactures do often an accessory viewfinder extender. Seacam, Subal, Aquatica all have optional viewfinders. Though be warned these viewfinders often cost around $1500

Housing choices. They all keep the water out and take equally good pictures. The three biggest things to consider when choosing a hosuing is how easy it is for you to access the buttons you use frequently, how the housing feals in your hands, and how much it costs. In addition to thouse that I listed above, Ikelite and Sea-and-Sea are popular housings.

Strobes. It somewhat depends on what housing you choose but I am an Ikelite fan myself (DS-125's or DS-200's). With Ikelite's new iTTL sync cord Ikelite strobes work in iTTL with any housing.

Best place to learn: Here

arnon_ayal and acroporas, thanks for taking time to answer my questions. i have a much better idea of where to get started now. on my next dive, i'll ask to check out some of the setups people use. there are a few regular photographers on the dives i go on, although i was more into hunting and for some reason, hunters and photographers are usually in their seperate groups (it's not appearant, but i feel photographers look down upon hunters....maybe it's just me).

i'll do more research on strobes as i sense this will probably be the more crucial component in the set up, correct? is ikelite the only company with i-ttl compatibilties? i am comfortable with reading historgrams and making manual settings, but i always say, why make life harder espically since it'll be harder to get 2nd chances underwater.

the d80 is what i plan to take with me in the water. for digital, i have a d2x and recently upgraded a trusty fuji s2pro to the new 5pro, but i rarely take those to cameras out unless i'm getting paid to do it. i bought the d80 not long ago as my "take anywhere" camera and it has proven to be so versatile. easy to carry, gets marginally better performance at iso1600 compared to the d2x, and in my opinion "good enough" for 95% of the photos needed. plus, it's not like i will be making huge prints for myself...if it were up to me, i'd use the d80+s5pro combo on all shoots, but a lot of clients judge photographers based on the size of their equipment, so...

anyways, back to topic. i don't plan to get rid of the d80 anytime soon. when nikon comes out with a full frame camera (rumored to be next year) i'll probably replace the d2x with it. will a UW photo benifit from FF? and if FF is better, can i not just get a new housing for it and share the ports with the d80 housing?

as for brands, i see that one of the manufacturing promises to be flood free and offers $$$ if flooding occurs. is that more marketing than a promise of quality? other than ergonomics and feel-in-hand, what are some more important features i should look into?

the shooting from the hip technique sounds intersting. it is to help stablize the camera? if not, why wouldn't it be easy to compose shooting in a streched out arms in front positions? i assume with either, one would crop in post processing and/or take a series of photos and hope one turns out with an interesting composition.

finally, although i haven't seen anyone do it for scuba, does anyone take 2 seperate camera down? for example, one with a WA lens attached and one with a macro lens attached? is it manageable?

Find a pool and throw a nick nack or any little 3d object to the bottom and practice.

The time spent in the pool is worth 50 dives in the ocean. No buddy, no distractions, just pure concentration on figuring it out.

Digital TTL is a very complicated subject that is constantly changing.

TTL compatiblity is dependant on the right combination of Camera Model, Housing, Bulkheads, strobes

-Ikelite strobes are iTTL compatible with with their iTTL sync cord.

-Seacam has iTTL compatible strobes (though they are VERY expensive)

-Most newer strobes are iTTL compatible if the housing has an heinrich iTTL converter. http://www.heinrichsweikamp.net/blitz/index.htm

-Or you can put your Nikon Shoe-mount flashes in a housing. (works great for macro but are not powerfull or wide enough for Wide Angle)

RE: two cameras and two housings. Would be great, but only if you bring along a sherpa.

RE: shooting from the hips. I mostly do this when you cant or it would be difficult get you head behind the viewfinder where you'd like the camera to be positioned.

Find a pool and throw a nick nack or any little 3d object to the bottom and practice.

 

The time spent in the pool is worth 50 dives in the ocean. No buddy, no distractions, just pure concentration on figuring it out.

that's a good idea. i'm sure the dive shop i go to will be more than ok with me trying out the camera when they have one of their pool training sessions. i never thought about that!

Digital TTL is a very complicated subject that is constantly changing.

TTL compatiblity is dependant on the right combination of Camera Model, Housing, Bulkheads, strobes

 

-Ikelite strobes are iTTL compatible with with their iTTL sync cord.

-Seacam has iTTL compatible strobes (though they are VERY expensive)

-Most newer strobes are iTTL compatible if the housing has an heinrich iTTL converter. http://www.heinrichsweikamp.net/blitz/index.htm

-Or you can put your Nikon Shoe-mount flashes in a housing. (works great for macro but are not powerfull or wide enough for Wide Angle)

 

RE: two cameras and two housings. Would be great, but only if you bring along a sherpa.

 

RE: shooting from the hips. I mostly do this when you cant or it would be difficult get you head behind the viewfinder where you'd like the camera to be positioned.

good point. i saw "iTTL" and instantly assumed that it will be compatible with nikon's iTTL. i will check manufacturer sites to double check.

btw, i tried to looked up what a "sherpa" was but came up with "an ethnic tribe from the himalaya region of nepal." what do you mean by bringing along a sherpa?

The one thing you are doing right is not asking how much $$. The objective should always get all of your options on the table then align your budget to the items you want most. The other day I bought some Atomic fins for $260 some odd dollars. I didn't know how much they were nor did I ask. I just plopped them on the counter and the guy said, "don't you want to know how much these cost?" I said nope. Just ring them up. He said, "you been diving a long time, haven't you?". I said yes, a few decades, I mean yes, a while. He proceeded to say that he notices that people deeply rooted in diving have a trait. They already know and accept that diving is expensive and usually no longer cry over prices because they have no more tears to give. Great start and you have an awesome set of tools and resources here on Wetpixel.

Joe

.... what do you mean by bringing along a sherpa?

Sherpas are an ethnic group from high altitude Nepal, and sherpas is also a term used to identify the local people often employed by mountain climbing expeditions to assist in summiting in the Himilayas. Sherpas carried the equipment for the expeditions (but were also skilled mountaineers), hence terms like "I could do with a sherpa" or "you'll need to bringa sherpa".

Tenzing Norgay who accompanied Hillary to the summit of Everest was often called "sherpa tenzing".

Are they nappy headed?

Yes, by Sherpa I mean, soneone to cary your extra gear.

He said, "you been diving a long time, haven't you?". I said yes, a few decades, I mean yes, a while. He proceeded to say that he notices that people deeply rooted in diving have a trait. They already know and accept that diving is expensive and usually no longer cry over prices because they have no more tears to give.

How long does it take to learn this skill? I've been diving for 16 years now and am still a cheapy.... Maybe dutchies are related to the Scottish but i cant resist to try to save a few euros....

Gerard

Exactly 20 years

The one thing you are doing right is not asking how much $$. The objective should always get all of your options on the table then align your budget to the items you want most. The other day I bought some Atomic fins for $260 some odd dollars. I didn't know how much they were nor did I ask. I just plopped them on the counter and the guy said, "don't you want to know how much these cost?" I said nope. Just ring them up. He said, "you been diving a long time, haven't you?". I said yes, a few decades, I mean yes, a while. He proceeded to say that he notices that people deeply rooted in diving have a trait. They already know and accept that diving is expensive and usually no longer cry over prices because they have no more tears to give. Great start and you have an awesome set of tools and resources here on Wetpixel.

 

Joe

hehe, it seems i always get into expensive hobbies. i love working on cars and did work out of my garage for a while...good tool are $$$$ and then added a lift, then computer diagnositic tools. good investment though because i must have saved thousands over the years working on cars myself. then it was snowboarding. a ski vacation is $$$$ not to mention when i started getting into heli-boarding a few years back but nothing in the world matches the rush. the photography is fairly new, but by far the easiest to spend my $$$$. at least taken care of good equipments lasts decades...scuba diving was next and now UW photography. good thing i have a supportive (and supporting ) wife.

Sherpas are an ethnic group from high altitude Nepal, and sherpas is also a term used to identify the local people often employed by mountain climbing expeditions to assist in summiting in the Himilayas. Sherpas carried the equipment for the expeditions (but were also skilled mountaineers), hence terms like "I could do with a sherpa" or "you'll need to bringa sherpa".

 

Tenzing Norgay who accompanied Hillary to the summit of Everest was often called "sherpa tenzing".

lol, got it ! thanks.

Are they nappy headed?

??lol, you guys are too much. this is a great forum to hang out.

Yes, by Sherpa I mean, soneone to cary your extra gear.

ic. 2 cameras = not managable by 1 person then.

How long does it take to learn this skill? I've been diving for 16 years now and am still a cheapy.... Maybe dutchies are related to the Scottish but i cant resist to try to save a few euros....

 

Gerard

don't worry...we chinese alwasy haggle even in department stores. it's a fact!

Exactly 20 years

boys and toys...boys and toys