Seahorse / Indocruises

I thought it important to let everyone know that Diving 4 Images is no longer operating the diving operations onboard Seahorse or indocruises.com

We have had to deal with too many issues regarding management and the way the owners, who with very little diving knowledge want to run their vessel.

If you are considering this is an option for your live aboard holiday or charter and have concerns please don't hesitate to contact me direct for more information…

Hi Graham,

Did you have any Copyright Issues,Non-payment, Fraud or theft though?

If not it's a bit unfair to post that in this section for poor management or service, as it will be detrimental to their company appearance.

Never mind! All sorted!

I've never been on the boat nor do i know anyone who has....

Graham

I'm sorry to hear about your problems but your working relationship with whichever company should be posted in the Dive travel section. The Copyright etc forum is for criminal or illegal posts. I've moved it the correct section.

So what's changed from your previous report:

http://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=16569

Cheers

Drew

Oops really sorry I've got a really slow connection as I'm doing this from my phone and couldn't quite work out where to put from m little screen. Thanks for putting it in the right place Drew!

I think there may be some copyright issues to follow as they still have all ym wesbite text on their website, but that we'll see what happens with that one!

Graham, who should we be looking at for a Raja live aboard now?

Graham

First of all, is it necessary to make negative comments on the Indocruises publicly? Your comments on the management may be taken as malicious seeing how the IndoCruises people are not here to defend themselves. Business deals come and go. Just a simply statement of the dissolution of the partnership should suffice.

Even if Diving4Images and Indocruises have differences and decide not to work together anymore, why air your grievances in a public forum? It benefits neither companies. However, if the boat or crew is unsafe or false advertising (rooms with no bathrooms etc), then by all means post away and back them up with facts. The operational philosophies and directions of companies should not be seen as a negative but merely a difference of opinion.

Since you have made the statement however, I believe you should elaborate more on the problems you had on the Seahorse. That way, readers can judge for themselves. By asking readers to contact you if they are thinking of using the Seahorse could also be misconstrued as self-serving.

I hope you understand you were a partner with Indocruises and thus are held to higher criteria when making public statements like this. It's not the same as XYZ did not like his/her trip on the Seahorse and are complaining. Just a few things for you to think about.

As the owner of MSY Seahorse, I want to inform that due to the disagreements I had with Graham Abbott/Diving4Images, I have decided to terminate the business relationship I had with them by words and by email sent to their office on March 8th, 2007.

I thought the issue was over. But sadly, now that he can’t use our vessel for his business anymore, it seems like he is very concern with what it is going on with the Seahorse.

The words Graham Abbot is posting in this forum are obviously with bad intentions and it seems that somehow he has the imperative need to damage our image by offering some sort of biased information.

Those words and the style you Graham Abbott are showing here, makes me believe yet more that to end any relationship with you have been the very best decision I could have made related to this business.

I wish you all the very best for the future.

Txus Reiriz.

As respect to all the members of this forum I apologize for having to use it on this matter.

The reason I posted this news is that prior to Diving 4 Images involvement with Seahorse no one within Wetpixel had heard about Indocruises or Seahorse. Diving 4 Images had made an announcement about starting a deal starting with Seahorse. I simply wanted to make an announcement to say that we ended this deal. I didn't want divers from wetpixel to read on this site that Diving 4 Images was involved and then book thinking they would also be diving with Diving 4 Images onboard Seahorse. I believe, and have been told by many very well travelled divers that the live aboard diving trips I run are unique, adventurous and some have said very different from the way other operators run trips.

All the text regarding dive areas, itineraries and more on the indocruises.com came from Diving 4 Images website information, simply check and compare the text on these two pages:

http://www.indocruises.com/scuba-dive-char...s-indonesia.htm

http://www.diving4images.com/dive_flores_alor.html

Drew, I don't want to go into the details about why we had to end our deal with Seahorse. This is between Diving 4 Images and Indocruises and isn't be news that I'm trying to used online to someone else down. Once again I posted this so others don't book expecting me or any other dive guides from Diving 4 Images that would be leading trips. With a breif note why, management issues! Remember "issues" could mean personal or anything?

I still believe that with the right crew, cruise director and dive staff Seahorse could be the best traditional styled liveaboard in Indonesia! I won't go back on my initial views of the boat. Though for me diving is more about crew, dive staff and quality of diving, not just a fantastic boat!

Sorry, I never replied to scorpio_fish:

We are now looking at taking some charters in Irian Jaya with Grand Komodo Tours. Their newest boat Raja Explorer seems to be great! Its spacious, has all the creature comforts divers want and need, then more -- she has a rear dive deck, which I really like the sound of. I've taken many trips with Grand Komodo vessels and always thought their crew to be the most efficient, self motivated crew I have ever had the pelasure of working with. I know Harry the cruise director and dive guide onboard and I'd highly recomend anyone to book a trip if Harry was onboard. I'm not too sure of their other guides as Kristanto left a while back. I generally only recomend boats that have guides and or a cruise director with at least a good reputation for looking after their divers, both underwater and on the boat before and after dives, of course being photo friendly for those in Wetpixel also matters!

I also have some charters booked with Seven Seas, which is another great dive liveaboard boat over here. Not too sure how photo friendly they are on their regualr trips. I know Tomi (Seven Seas Indonesia guide) is an excellent spotter, he really knows his way round a dive site.

So there's two options I'd highly recomend for you!

Don't hesitate to ask for anymore information on Indonesia. If I am not online via Wetpixel I may be away from a fast conneciton, just send me an email, it's also much faster for me!

Sorry, I never replied to scorpio_fish:

We are now looking at taking some charters in Irian Jaya with Grand Komodo Tours. Their newest boat Raja Explorer seems to be great!

I'm not Graham, but I was just out for the fourth time on SMY Ondina and would recommend that boat highly. I've recommended them in other threads as well.

On another note: Given the negative tone in part of this thread, I'm a bit reluctant to post this, but in the spirit of sharing personal experiences, I'll just note that while we were out in Raja Ampat a couple weeks ago, we met the Raja Ampat Explorer twice. It is, indeed, a new and very nice looking boat. However, at one dive site (Fiabacet, for those that know -- and Graham, the Seahorse was there at exactly the same time -- were you on board?) they tied off to the dive site (the site consists of two exposed rocks with a very nice ridge in between and they physically tied the Explorer (not the tenders) to the small rock) rather than anchor off of the site as is the custom. On my way back from a dive, I took pictures of it -- they moved off a while later and anchored. The second time we met the Explorer, we were anchored at Mike's Point finishing lunch and getting ready for our second dive there. The Explorer arrived, dropped anchor (not on the dive site -- don't want to give the wrong impression) while still moving forward at a decent clip, swung around after the anchor dragged and caught, then disgorged their divers as quickly as possible -- the only thing one could conclude is that they were trying to get in before we had a chance to. I'll note for the record that our cruise director told them at Fiabacet that they had to wait for us since we were there first, so maybe they felt they had to do this in order to keep their schedule (they took off right afterward, driving within 50 yards of our tenders who were recovering divers (they made an extra U-turn to do it!)). As Graham rightly observes, there are good boats and good crews and good individuals to work with. In many cases all don't line up at the same time. And, there is always turnover so it is often hard to generalize and say one boat is always better than another. I will say, though, that I sent my concerns to Grand Komodo's office and they responded very quickly and promised to look into what happened -- they run several boats across Indonesia and it is, no doubt, difficult to keep up with everything that happens on all of them.

Mike

I'm not Graham, but I was just out for the fourth time on SMY Ondina and would recommend that boat highly. I've recommended them in other threads as well.

 

On another note: Given the negative tone in part of this thread, I'm a bit reluctant to post this, but in the spirit of sharing personal experiences, I'll just note that while we were out in Raja Ampat a couple weeks ago, we met the Raja Ampat Explorer twice. It is, indeed, a new and very nice looking boat. However, at one dive site (Fiabacet, for those that know -- and Graham, the Seahorse was there at exactly the same time -- were you on board?) they tied off to the dive site (the site consists of two exposed rocks with a very nice ridge in between and they physically tied the Explorer (not the tenders) to the small rock) rather than anchor off of the site as is the custom. On my way back from a dive, I took pictures of it -- they moved off a while later and anchored. Mike

Another piece of information about this incident with a Grand Komodo ship tying up to the small island is that they were quite close to the Island and that the weight of the boat broke off a good sized chunk of the island which then proceded to crash down amongst the living coral.

I beleive that there are regulations in the Misool area that require all boats to stand off/anchor a minimum 250 meters from any piece of land and to not tie up to the land.

This group certainly doesn't seem to care about the environment that they are making a living from. This is not the first time that a ship from Grand Komodo has disregarded common sense when in the Misool area.

Last November the Grand Komodo ship MV Temu Kira tied up to the larger of the 2 islands at Fiabacet and proceeded to swing on the mooring line heading for a collision with island both above and below the waterline, dragging her bottom over the shallow part of the coral garden would have been disasterous.

They finally got the tenders to pull them away from the island and undid their mooring line and moved off. They were less than 10 meters from a good sized collision and a bottom dragging. They just don't show any respect for the environment.

Graham

I fully understand you wish to make sure the termination of your association with Indocruises is publicly known. A simply post to that effect is more than enough. Whatever copyright issues you have with Indocruises should be taken up legally. However, I think it is off base to first allude that the Seahorse is badly run by the management (not just my interpretation but also by 2 other readers, which prompted me to post) then say 'issues' means anything or nothing. I suggest you reread what you wrote:

We have had to deal with too many issues regarding management and the way the owners, who with very little diving knowledge want to run their vessel.

Even in your subsequent post, you again insinuate that negative stance about the crew and staff.

I still believe that with the right crew, cruise director and dive staff Seahorse could be the best traditional styled liveaboard in Indonesia! I won't go back on my initial views of the boat. Though for me diving is more about crew, dive staff and quality of diving, not just a fantastic boat!

It is highly irresponsible of you to twice publicly denounce an operation's worthiness without elaboration and proof, especially since you had a partnership with that company, which obviously has gone sour. It can be misinterpreted as vindictive. I'm just taking you to task on this because you are a representative for Indonesia diving. By that fact alone makes you liable for making statements like that, without proof and also hints of malice. Now that Txus has posted his side of this tale, tell me how this has benefitted either one of you?

It may not have been your intention to post negatively, but obviously your choice of words in the subsequent post say otherwise. As a former D4I client, I'm shocked and disappointed you would do this without considering the consequences. Your statements on Indocruises, while obviously valid in your eyes, needs substantiating. You cannot start something like this, then wave your arms and say it's not my 'intention' when your words say otherwise.

What if a client of yours posts here alluding he/she has 'issues' with D4I and state that with better management and staff, D4I would be the best? How would you like that?

I thought it important to let everyone know that Diving 4 Images is no longer operating the diving operations onboard Seahorse or indocruises.com

 

We have had to deal with too many issues regarding management and the way the owners, who with very little diving knowledge want to run their vessel.

 

If you are considering this is an option for your live aboard holiday or charter and have concerns please don't hesitate to contact me direct for more information…

Personally I don't see what is so bad about Graham's statement here. Yes maybe it was in the wrong forum initially but as many have experienced with a slow connection WetPixel is a bit of a bear with many rather "bloated" categories and it can be hard to figure out where to post, especially on a slooooooow connection.

I think Graham is being too harshly targeted on this forum for informing us his relationship with Seahorse is terminated. I'm glad he posted this because I thought Diving4Images was still chartering the Seahorse and it would have been a huge disappointment to expect the professionalism of Graham or his top-notch dive guides and find they are not involved.

Even when I joined Diving4Images on the Temukira (boat-mentioned also in this thread) I found the trip to be meticulously planned under the oversight of Graham and Diving4Images and the captain and crew of the Temukira showed great knowledge of and care for the environment - above and below the water and care for the local villages also. And the critter/fish spottings and individual attention was superb.

So thanks Graham for letting us know about the situation.

Please don't jump on Graham for just communicating about a difficult situation here - yes maybe the best words were not chosen, but who can say they themselves always communicate about tough situations in the best possible way?

Thanks for the info Graham, Carol

Hi All,

It seems that everyone has had a chance to chime in with their information on the topic. I'd be happy if we continue a general thread about Indonesian liveaboards and diving (since it's something I REALLY want to do) but I'd prefer if we can start a separate thread.

I'm going to close this thread so that we can have a continued discussion with a diferent (non-confrontational) title :-)

Cheers

James