350D vs D40 vs E400

I hate posting these questions, but I don't know enough and some kind soul on here might and might be good enough to offer advice.

All three of the cameras listed can be purchased from a local-to-me camera shop for more or less the same price of €800.

The deals are:

350D + Canon 18-55mm + Sigma 70-300mm APO

D40 + Nikon 18-55mm + Nikon 55-200mm

E400 + Olympus 14-42mm + Olympus 40-150mm

Without having actually held any of the three, and having only read reviews and comparisons on letsgodigital.org, cameralabs.com & dpreview.com, and bending the sales guy's ear in the local camera shop for half an hour on the phone, and reading any relative articles I could find on uwpmag.com, and sifting through any relative forum topic I could find , I kind of need opinions on which camera deal would best serve my requirements.

This will be one camera for all purposes: family snaps, ambitious family portraits & candids, occasional scenery & sports subjects, travel & holidays - the usual family stuff. It'll also be used whenever we get a chance to dive and for when we snorkel in the summer at home. The lens deals mentioned are obviously geared for topside use, and I can imagine us actually using both, so that's fine, and I'd be happy to augment them with fixed or zoom wide angle and macro lenses for UW use.

After a little surfing, it seems that Ikelite offer the cheapest (if not the most handsome) housing for the 350D.

Our current leanings are toward the 350D. 8MP, 22mm sensor, huge lens options, good-enough buffer. Downside is the 1.8" LCD screen.

The E400 would seem to be the ideal set-up if the sensor wasn't only 17mm wide - 10MP & 2.5" LCD screen.

The D40 has 6MP (plenty, of course, for amateur hobby photography), 22mm sensor & 2.5" LCD screen.

Now it comes down to ergonomics: if we like the feel of the camera and the controls seem intuitive, then that's going to be a big factor, just as disliking the feel and the controls feeling counter-intuitive would.

I think I read in an uwpmag.com article that a guy who moved from Nikon to Canon found the Canon ergonomics quite counter-intuitive after having used Nikon for a long time. I wonder if new users, unfamiliar with ANY DSLR, would experience the same?

My dad who is a professional wedding & portrait photographer moved to DSLR maybe a year or 18 months ago. He has a D200 and a Fuji S3 or S5 (not sure). He lives Nikon. He can't really help me with my choice as the cameras I'm considering are not ones he's familiar with.

So can anyone on here advise on why one or any of these cameras should or shouldn't be on my shopping list, or even advise on an alternative choice that I've missed?

The 400D seems like the perfect alternative for us, with 10MP, 22mm sensor, big buffer and 2.5"LCD, but it's just too far out of our budget right now (and as is always the way when exciting purchases like DSLRs are pending, it has to be bought NOW!).

Of course if we went for the 350D now, sticking with Canon would pose less cost-to-upgrade on a 400D or 20D or whatever in the future.

FWIW, I'm man enough to concede that it's actually my wife that has the knack when it comes to taking good pics rather than me, both on land and underwater. She took a really great shot (relatively speaking) of me snorkelling through a stack in Greece, using a disposable UW camera. So that might be a factor to consider in our purchase - the ergonomics & feel will have to suit her more than me.

Thanks for any replies,

Mark

Be prepared to spend several thousand on a housing, ports, strobes and arms. If you aren't prepared for that, I would recommend buying a good point n' shoot camera and using that underwater.

As for the DSLR choices, all three will produce fine images. Don't get too hung up about sensor size. Even the E400 has a much larger sensor than any digicam.

If it were my choice, I would spend a little more and get the Nikon D80. It has two major advantages over the D40. First is that the D80 will take just about any Nikon autofocus lens. The D40/D40x will only autofocus with newer Nikon lenses with a built-in focus motor.

The second advantage is the viewfinder. The D80 has a bigger viewfinder than the D40 or the 350D. Compared to the E400, the D80's viewfinder is much larger, although the E400 has live view using the LCD.

The D80 is very similar to the D200, without the weather sealing and a few other features. It also uses different memory.

I second the d80...very nice camera above and underwater..plenty of housing choices and the viewfinder is great.

M.

I suggest the d70/d70s. Great on land and lots of used housing's on the market.

I like the D80 as well, the lens selection is great and the camera is full-featured. The Canon 400xTi (which you didn't mention) and the D40 have some advantages in that the camera controls are shown on the large LCD screen, where the D80 has them on a small LCD and in the viewfinder, not the easiest to read.

A lot of users like the smaller form factor of the D40/400xTi.

You'll be a bit limited on housings for the E400.

Fantasea Line has nice, less-expensive housings for the 350, 400 XTi and D40, btw.

Jack

I second desert eagle!

Mark, think about this!

If you cannot imagine putting in the extra cash for the 400d or the d80 you should choose a digital compact in the upper segment instead of going with an dslr.

Image quality is ofcoure not as good with a compact, but you can find a housing for around 200 euros.

I have seen a couple of exxelent images taken by compact cameras, especially macro images.

Housings for dslrs start at around 1000euros. But you will need ports (atleast 500euro macro + wideangle) strobes (600euro) arms (200euro)

+ lenses suitable for underwater use (tokina fisheye + macro lens, 450+350euro)

Another option is going with a dslr for topside photography and getting a compact to bring with you during the dives.

Yeah the guys are right it does work out expensive for the DSLR housing and all the bits to with it. I just shelled out just under $3000 for an Ikelite housing and the ports, strobe arms, strobes, spares etc.

But on the other hand I have seen so many chaeper P&S housings fail only after a few days (Canon, Sony etc) 500 Euro down the drain. Ikelite make a good range of housings for P&S cameras and prices are exceptable, adding a strobe or two is also an option on some. They are tougher than the cheaper models and look and feel better quality.

check this out http://www.ikelite.com/web_pages/1digital.html

Hmmm...

I had initially thought that a DSLR for my wife and something like an Olympus MJU700 + Olmpus' own housing for underwater might be the way to go, but then thought that the cost of a housing for whatever DSLR we ended up going for might not be that much more than that of the MJU + housing.

There are a number of reasons I think I'd still be prepared to spend the extra on housing/lens/strobe set-up for the DSLR:

1. The ability to shoot in RAW, for underwater shots particularly, might allow us to produce better final shots than would be possible with a compact, which AFAIK can't shoot in RAW (OTC).

2. The timescale for buying the housing/UW lenses/strobes wouldn't necessarily be immediate with the purchase of the DSLR - DSLR could be for her birthday (August), housing for Xmas or even next year's birthday?

3. My 40th is in July 2008 and hers is in August 2010. Depending in finances and whatever life chucks at us, we plan to treat ourselves to a one week liveaboard, without the kids, maybe in the Red Sea, for either hers or my 40th. It'd be quite exciting to have the most decent and capable camera we could afford to take on such a trip. By either date, I'm confident we could have collected the necessary housing, strobes, lenses, and of course spares. Also by either date, we'd have had plenty of time to familiarise ourselves with the camera top-side, so we should have minimal readjustment to using it UW.

4. Neither of us smoke and we drink very little - what else are we gonna blow our moolah on?! Well, except for kid's school books & uniforms, Yu-Gi-Oh cards, princess dresses, car insurance & tax, etc . . .

So D70 or D80 rather than any of the three I listed? I did say the EOS 400D (Rebel XTi in USA) is just out of our budget right now, but I'm aware that buying the better body & maybe only one good lens to start with, and then working up the rest of the kit in time makes more sense, but the little boy part of me just wanted it all now! The 400D + Canon 18-55mm can be bought now for €770.

Thanks a lot for the replies guys - it's good forums like this that really help regular folk learn what their best options are.

Mark

I have a 350D and an E300, and use the E300 underwater. I like it a lot.

Dust removal is really nice as an option, so I strongly recommend going the 400d if you go canon. The later Olympus DSLR's have a rep for having pretty dark viewfinders, if you're going olympus its probably better to get an E330 or E410 for underwater than an E400, as the real killer app with Olympus is being able to use the screen for preview. My understanding is the E400 doesnt have 'live view', only the E410 does.

Preview is a very useful thing underwater unless you have very good eyesight - any DSLR viewfinder underwater can be a bit hard going, unless you have one of the fancier viewfinder aids like the Inon.

The D80 seems to be very popular underwater. It is a few dollars more though, in my view you can do fine with a lot less.

Otara

So D70 or D80 rather than any of the three I listed? I did say the EOS 400D (Rebel XTi in USA) is just out of our budget right now, but I'm aware that buying the better body & maybe only one good lens to start with, and then working up the rest of the kit in time makes more sense, but the little boy part of me just wanted it all now! The 400D + Canon 18-55mm can be bought now for €770.

You dont write where you live, but I guess you live in Europe since you list the prices in euro. You know europe is one market now and the 400d with kitlens can be found in Germany from about €650, the d80 from about €1000 with its kitlens.

In uk I have found the d80 from £675 and the 400d from £480

I've got a D80, D200 and D40 (with the two lenses you mention). The D200 is my workhorse camera and the one I shoot underwater. My daughter shoots the D80 underwater. The D40 is my keep in the car walk-around camera.

I really, really like the D40. It is compact and does most everything I want to do with a camera - most of the time. The D80 would be a great compromise between the D200 and D40. I would consider the D40x as well.

If I were buying today and money was a major factor, I'd go D40x.

SD

After using a P&S in a housing for 3 years, I can definitely recommend going with a dSLR. While the P&S plus housing tends to be smaller and cheaper, the quality of my images now I have a dSLR is significantly better. The biggest drawback with the P&S was shutter lag, especially when shooting fish. With my D70, I can compose and shoot and get the photograph before the fish has had time to swim off, find a mate and spawn.

I'm now thinking about replacing the D70 with a D200 so I can get a viewfinder that lets me see the whole scene in on go.

I'm in Dublin, Ireland.

I kind of like the idea of buying from a physical shop to which I can return with any problems.

I'm not adverse to buying on-line - my band's complete PA rig cost over €9000 and we bought that from Germany, along with my bass, effects and lots of other stuff.

But with something like a DSLR, I think I'd pay the difference to get the personal aspect into my purchase. The shop I have in mind does free sensor cleaning for life if you buy your camera from them, which IIUC is a big deal?

We definitely want a DSLR - I haven't mentioned yet that my wife's Fuji S3000's shutter lag drove us mad.

After reading some more on this thread yesterday, and surfing a little more (on my lunch break, of course ), I did have brief looks at the EOS 400D, D40x & E410. For the same price as the 350D + 18-55mm + 70-300mm deal I originally mentioned, I could get one of these cameras with a single lens:

400D + 18-55mm: €770 (€969 if I include a Sigma 70-300mm APO)

E410 + 14-42mm: €799 (€899 if I include the Olympus 40-150mm)

The D40x is significantly dearer, bearing in mind that €800 is my budget:

D40x + 18-55mm: €899 (€1079 if I include a Sigma 55-200mm, or €1098 with a Sigma 70-300mm APO).

Initially I thought the Olympus lenses offered less zoom potential for top-side candid family stuff (we love pics of our kids playing or whatever, when they don't know we're snapping them), but I'm sure y'all know the E400 & E410's multiplication factor is 2x, so the 150 zoom equates to a respectable 35mm equivalent of 300mm.

I'm leaning to 400D now. Fantasea already have a housing for it - the cheapest on the market, AFAIK.

If I knew they were going to bring one out for the E410 (or that an alternative similarly-priced housing by anyone else was available), that would probably swing it towards the Olympus. The LCD shot-preview would be really nice, specially UW.

If I seem fickle in changing my mind, sorry, but I did post this thread to determine what will be the best camera/deal for us.

Thanks again for the replies,

Mark

I note with interest that no-one has chimed in with the 'new' Nikon D40X.

My nephew has one of these little puppies and it is really 'cute' to handle and boasts 10 megapixels...

I believe that the only place that this camera would fall short (from posted reviews), would be if

you wanted to get really creative top-side. Apart from that, I think that size wise it would be the

perfect underwater set-up with the Nikon 'stable' of lenses...

IMHO

Bruce

The D40/D40x will only autofocus with newer Nikon lenses with a built-in focus motor.

If I were buying today and money was a major factor, I'd go D40x.

 

SD

I did have brief looks at the EOS 400D, D40x & E410. For the same price as the 350D + 18-55mm + 70-300mm deal I originally mentioned, I could get one of these cameras with a single lens:

 

400D + 18-55mm: €770 (€969 if I include a Sigma 70-300mm APO)

E410 + 14-42mm: €799 (€899 if I include the Olympus 40-150mm)

 

The D40x is significantly dearer, bearing in mind that €800 is my budget:

 

D40x + 18-55mm: €899 (€1079 if I include a Sigma 55-200mm, or €1098 with a Sigma 70-300mm APO).

 

Mark

Hi Bruce,

The D40x gets lots of mentions, and it does seem like a great option but for two reasons, as I see it: it's significantly out of my budget and IIUC, will only AF specific lenses.

Thanks,

Mark