Looking For Photographs to Illustrate Medical Testbook

I am one of the authors of the environmental medicine chapter in the Atlas of Emergency Medicine. I am looking for a few additional photographs (see below) to illustrate text regarding specific marine envenomations. This book is a textbook and as such, there is no profit potential for me nor can I pay anything for the use of your photograph should we decide to use it. The image would not be used in any other publications and would remain your property. If we were to use your photograph, you would be given credit for the image in the image caption. If an individual is pictured in the image, we would also need their permission to publish it. If you would be interested in contributing, please send me a high resolution JPEG along with a description of the image.

Sincerely,

Ian D. Jones MD (Divedoc)

Medical Director

Department of Emergency Medicine

Vanderbilt University Medical Center

Ian.Jones@vanderbilt.edu

Images Needed:

Stonefish

Sea Snake (any)

Mask Squeeze

Embedded sea urchin spine

Stingray injury

Fire Urchin

Cone Snail

Blue Ring Octopus

Box Jellyfish

Portuguese Man o War

Dr. Jones,

I think you may not get a favorable reaction to asking for free photographs here at Wetpixel. Many of the members here have spent thousands of $$$ on their camera equipment and many thousands more on their dive travel.

While the book is a textbook, it wouldn't be printed if SOMEONE wasn't making a profit. Are the authors writing the text for free? Are the illustrators working for free?

If the answer to the above 2 questions is yes, then I have a good stonefish photo for you to use.

Sincerely,

James Wiseman

James,

Well put......No disrespect to Dr. Jones, but this is unfortunately too common.

I, as many others here, likely have images they would LICENSE for use in such venues.....But give away....I sure hope not

David Haas

Haas Photography Inc.

www.haasimages.com

It's a never ending problem which will always annoy the hell out of everyone.

the others in the process that WON'T be working for free include, but aren't limited to...

ink manufacturers, distributors and resellers; forest workers, logging truck drivers, paper millers, distributors, shipping companies and paper merchants; iron-ore miners, masters of bulk carriers shipping the ore to the steel mill, steel manufacturers and merchants, printing press manufacturers, press repair technicians; pre-press technicians, press operators, fork lift drivers at the printer, binders, delivery drivers..... that's before the text book makes it to the warehouse.

...you get the picture i guess...

why is that photographers should work for free?

I'll bet you're sorry you asked, but this is an all too common request. I think that most people just don't realize how much money it costs to get a picture of a stonefish and may think that giving away one or two photos is no skin off our teeth.

I just paid a plumber $60 and hour to fix my leaky shower, then I paid a mechanic $75 and hour to work on my car.

I'm not trying to sound arrogant, but on top of having a God given gift of being an artist, I've worked hard to earn a Bachelor of Fine Arts degree (with honors at that). I've spent well over $100,000 in dive and camera gear over the years, plus travel expenses, camera maintenance and repair.

I've personally had sea urchin spines embedded in places I would never take a picture of and risked my life holding a poisonous sea snake next to my face so my friend Jim Watt could take a picture.

So why would I work for less money than a plumber or an auto mechanic? I don't say this out of disrespect for either of those professions. They both have more talent than I'll ever have in their fields, but my butt is much nicer than any plumber I've ever seen (except maybe the one on Desperate Housewives).

If you're looking for cheap photos try Shutterstock.com or iStockPhoto.com. There are many others but you get what you pay for.

Bonnie

C'mon Bonnie, you already have the photo just sitting on your hard drive doing nothing. Why not just go ahead and give it to him...lol

Cheers

James

That WaterColours Girl.....

Always talking about her butt

Hmm............Where are those OTHER pictures from the Shearwater on my hard drive? LOL......

I feel just a teensy bit sorry for Dr. Jones who is likely wondering what den of thieves he might have wandered into with his innocent question.

I think if you look up what an education at Vandebilt costs, no graduate from there is going to create anything and then give it away......So why should we.....

All in the mix of life......

dhaas

hehe

what a reaction!

I am definitely sorry that I asked...

I believe that McGraw Hill (the publisher) gets some money for sales of the book and probably makes some profit. (I did get 80 dollars for a book chapter that took me 3 months and hundreds of hours to write a few years ago) The number of sold copies is pretty small, and aimed at a narrow audience. Chapter authors and individuals who provide images get nothing other than published credit for their work. I certainly was not wanting to offend anyone but please understand that this is not a money making venture for me or any of the chapter authors.

My only goal was to see if anyone was willing to supply images for this project. This request is not meant to undermine professional photographers who have every right to be paid for their hard work. I can see how this request would upset someone who earns their livelihood this way.

My sincerest apologies.

Doc,

You don't owe us an apology and we certainly don't want you to be sorry that you asked here. You were/are trying to do a service in the name of education which is a good cause.

From our point of view though McGraw Hill are the "bad guys" if anyone. They paid you $80 to write a chapter for a textbook that they probably sold to some poor graduate student for $155? That's what irks us.

Cheers

James

The licensing of images can be a sensitive subject with regard to acceptable payments and opinions of worth. But there are still a set of general rates that are adhered to for basic usages.

From various sources, I've found competitive rates for educational textbook publishing companies are usually around the $150-$350 USD per image range for spot use, inside editorial, non-exclusive, world distribution with a print run of 250k-400k or so (and there are usually additional fee options for a republishing, etc). $0 is a slightly different number , and the reality is that the licensing of necessary image subjects should typically be the responsibility of the publisher.

I am definitely sorry that I asked...

...........My sincerest apologies.

Hey Doc, don't stress (hang on, shouldn't the doc be telling us not to stress?).

Trouble is you made your request in public, and we've all vented our collective built-up angst toward you, when it should be directed toward all the clients that have tried it on before you.

Good luck with the project, I'm sure it will save a few divers' lives in the future.

darren

Ha ha what a funny post.

Would not worry about it too much Divedoc....

Ive got some pics.

Here is one you can use for free

Doc, I know the feeling.

The guys on Wetpixel don't understand that we educate our colleagues from the goodness of our hearts, in between sorting out the sick and lame. The publishers seem to think that seeing our name in print is reward enough (though that isn't unique to medical publishing).

The answer is...

...take your own images!

I have a few favourite shark images that I use to illustrate stress and cognitive behaviour therapy, and some images of "narcosis" for an anaesthetic (anaesthetised?) audience.

Medicine pays for my diving, not, sadly, the other way around (unless I find a Great White in the English Channel).

Tim

B)

Most of these statements alone probably scared off a few kind and talented amatures who may have some talent and were quite willing to donate a few pictures to get their name on a publication. And I would have thought that asking in public is the best way to find amatures.

Ok it's annopying that someone is making profit somewhere, but it was really the Doc's fault he was just trying to make this product a bit better and was hoping he'd find some help.

Doc .. if you want a stingray injury after it has healed up I have a friend with a GREAT one on his inner thigh. Big long scar .. if you would like it .. I will ask him if we would like to contribute his scar for your bookey thing, me taking the photo really doesn't take much effort.

As an author of numerous textbook chapters for variously offensive pittances, I do have to say I think McGraw Hill is the one that should be getting the opprobrium here. Don't think for a second that they are not going to make plenty of money from this book, they may not sell all that many but academic monographs like this have huge profit margins.

As TD Priest says, may people outside the academic community would be aghast at the rates paid for text book chapters and illustrations.

Illustrations from my own experience:

1. Feline Medicine and Therapeutics, 1 Chapter, 26,000 words and 12 line illustrations, paid: GBP250
   
2. Consultations in Feline Medicine, 1 Chapter, 11,000 words, 2 line illustrations and a photo, paid: A copy of the book.
   
3. Small Animal Gastroenterology, 3 Chapters, 10,000 words, 6 illustrations, yet to be paid $7.50 per page of the final book (will probably be about $80.00), Worldwide English and German language rights.
   
4. Handbook of Small Animal Practice, 1 Chapter, 7,500 words, I think they are paying me something ( )
   
5. Small Animal Pediatrics, 1 Chapter, 24 manuscript pages, to be paid $10.00 per page of the final book + one complimentary copy.
   

I have never had a problem with requesting that something under another publisher's copyright be licensed to use in these publications, but that seems to be because there is a gentleman's agreement amongst academic publishers to not charge each other for cross-licensing. I have NEVER had a budget for illustrative material.

In my daily profession this kind of academic output is expected. We get paid reasonably well by our institution to do this sort of thing, so I suppose you could argue that we don't need to be paid by the publishers. In return they scratch the back of the institution with free subscriptions, complimentary copies for the libraries etc etc.

Still doesn't stop it from sucking.