Reliability of Ike DS51

Reading the forums here, I've heard mixed things about the DS125. I also notice more tales of Ikelites flooding than other brands, but that could also be because they are more popular or other factors.

My question for people that use the Ike DS51 - what is your opinion of the design and robustness of the strobe? Are you happy with its reliability and ability to resist flooding?

A part of me is telling me to get an Inon D2000 and be done with it. I have 2 Z240s and am very happy with them. Certainly, for the same price (more or less) as the DS51, I'd get a more powerful strobe that recharges faster. OTOH, a cable-fired system with true E-TTL would be nice to have (I intend to match this to a G6 with Canon ETTL housing).

But if the Ikes are more prone to flooding, then I will stick to the Inons. Everything I read about Ikelite service is positive, but I'd rather not avail of that service - especially as it will cost $200+ round trip in just shipping costs for any service.

TIA,

Vandit

A friend of mine bought a DS51 and the battery compartment flooded on the very first dive. Ikelite repaired it without question and he's not had a problem since in 20-30 dives. Ikelite didn't say what the problem was, but we suspect a faulty battery door.

I've had a DS50 since May 2003 and done over 60 dives. The only flood I've had was on the sync cable that was entirely my own fault - I didn't tighten the connector at all, but it still lasted a dive.

I now have 2 x DS125 and have had no problems at all.

I've had 3 of the old SS50 strobes, and 2 DS 50s and 1 DS 51. Never had any problem with any of them, over many hundreds of dives close to 2 decades.

Regarding the DS-51's battery compartment, especially as it compares to Inon's, there's no more subject where opinions will be more diametrically opposed. I don't think you can reach an objective conclusion by asking here. Any product will not flood when properly set up. The question is how foolproof the design is.

The Inons are more general purpose due to their beam width and you have said you are happy with them. Is it not possible to obtain wired eTTL using a converter with the G6 like the Sea & Sea? IS it not practical to use a fiber optic solution? I'm not familiar with the G6 personally.

Sync cords are the first component I'd like to get rid of, so if there were a solution that worked using fiber I'd go with that route.

I used Ike DS125s for many dives with no problems, but I've seen people suggest that you might be able to flood them if you grab the battery part of the strobe and use that to adjust the direction it's pointing - not sure if anyone ever actually flooded it that way. I've also managed to flood both a Ike 50 and 100 (the 50 twice) over many hundreds of dives, but only when I didn't actually manage to close the battery compartment ( ). Two out of three times a fresh water rinse was all that was needed to bring them back to life (and new batteries of course).

The DS50 uses the same closing system as the old 50s (I think) so I expect most (all?) floods would be due to user error, not Ikelite's design. But getting a new battery compartment lid every two - three years might well help as well.

Apart from the occasional exception, all floods are user error. The question is whether you expect "engineering and design" to provide the minimum necessary to function or whether you think engineers should design products that minimize flooding risks under real world usage. It was Ike that said, here in this forum, that "...he runs with people that are not smart enough to tighten a simple attaching knob." How thoughtful do you think the DS-51 design is when the company ignores decades of continual user complaints and, instead, claims end users are too incompetent to use their products? That door hasn't changed in nearly 25 years.

An Inon strobe will never flood because you grab it from the back nor will it flood because you've overtightened the battery cover. These are Ike issues. You can argue the semantics of design versus user error all you want, but when you have a product designed not only to work but to minimize the opportunity for user error why would you settle for less?

ATJ, Jon & Don - thanks for your feedback about the Ikes. One mostly hears complaints and bad stories on forums, so it is nice to hear good stuff as well.

Craig - you hit upon the main issue: "how foolproof is the design?"

As a better, improved, new-version fool, I want a strobe which doesnt require supreme attention to detail and the patience of Job to set up. On the other hand, I recognize that an owner-run company often takes on the idiosyncracies of its owner, and I dont necessarily blame Ike for that.

Can you perhaps tell me more about what some of the design issues with the Ike DS51 might be? Based on that, perhaps I can decide whether or not I can live with them.

Re. TTL - I really couldnt be arsed getting an external TTL converter. Too much work for a backup system. I'd prefer to use the TTL circuitry built into housing (as I've already paid for it). At a pinch, I could probably just use the Inons in S-TTL mode or in manual (I am happy with manual with my 20D)... I just figured it would be nice to have TTL given that the housing already has it. I know, not the most compelling of reasons to buy a less-optimal strobe, is it?

Vandit

The DS-51's battery door is flat and roughly square. It uses a compression o-ring rather than a captured o-ring. Captured o-rings tend to self-clean and have inherently uniform pressure so they are more reliable. Both types of seals can be used effectively so that alone isn't a big reason to choose.

The main problem with the DS-51 design is that the door is vulnerable to flexing and damage due to overtightening. With the DS-51, hopefully what feels right to you will be enough to keep it dry at the surface and not too much to distort the seal. No effort was made in the design to help make sure that the user gets that right. It's possible that the doors, due to their plastic construction, could deteriorate with time.

No doubt the DS-51 can be made to work. The question is why someone would use a design like that when there are obviously better ways to do that task. Ikelite could redesign the strobe to improve the battery compartment even if the other features of the strobe remain the same. Couldn't they at least offer a metal door?

I've never heard any complaints about the DS-51 other than its battery door. It's a nice, compact strobe and my friends all liked otherwise. If 70-80 degrees is wide enough then perhaps the DS-51 is a good solution for your particular camera. All members of my immediate group have switched to Inon, BTW, though none of them shoot with a rig like yours and none use digital TTL.

I don't think it's all that hard to make the DS-51 work, but back when my group consisted of 6 or more rigs with Ike 50's, there was frequently a spare or two in use by the end of the trip. It's my opinion that sync cords are the most problematic parts in a rig and I'd put DS-51 battery doors in that league---not a disaster but more trouble than they should be.

Have to chime in here.......Even though this has been beat to death

Bore seals are no more self cleaning than any type of seal, at least on UW photo gear. Sand, grit, etc. will make a bore seal leak, too. Not enough lube on the o-ring and it will twist when being threaded or sucked in and leak, too.

Ikelite 50 strobes have been around as Craig states for 25 years. Thousands of users and dives. Is any design perfect? The o-ring under the knob (seals hte threaded part going through the door) is almost impossible to get sand or grit under. The flat glued in o-ring on the door it self, and the surface it seals to obviously must be clean to seal properly.

Tightening as Don Erway mentioned he's done for 2 decades plus my own use of thousands of dives with 50 sized strobes is not that difficult.

As far as a plastic door taking a "set" after years of use and causing a flood. I doubt it.....In a lifetime of use the door will not likely be subjected to any reasonable pressure for a long enough period of time.

As Craig answered early in this thread, you will get 180 degree opposed opinions on any product. And if you do a search of any strobe or housing brand you will find leaks and flood in all. It happens......

Users also always want manufacturers to change something, and it's not as simple as most think.

Just one guys's opinion......

dhaas

I have owned SS50, and DS50 Ike strobes with the exact same design. I have flooded them before. But I have also owned Nikonos SB101, 102, and 103 and Sea and Sea 90 Strobes. All of those strobes have flooded at a greater frequency than the Ike DS50 design.

You can flood the DS125 if you grab it by the battery pack and twisted or jerk it hard. The battery pack is the back of the strobe and if you forget you can do this. I managed to do it on my last trip. Other than that though I find the strobe very reliable and resistant to flooding.

The DS 125 is my favorite strobe ever. I particularly love the extremely rapid recycle time, the color temperature and that if gives even, consistent lighting.

I've read that some recommend replacing the DS-51 door periodically though I don't think that comes from Ikelite. The plastic door can be damaged from overtightening, that damage can be cumulative, and plastic itself degenerates when exposed to UV. I don't think it's a matter of "taking a set". Nevertheless, I can't say whether it is good advice but I do think an aluminum door would not have the same problems as the plastic one. I'd prefer a different design.

I don't think you will get diametrically opposed opinions on any product, and I certainly didn't say that, but I do think you will on the DS-51. It is possible to flood any strobe, the question is how likely is it and how well engineered a given product is with respect to forgiveness of mistakes. I am not anal nor meticulous but neither am I abusive with my equipment. I expect a product to be designed to work without me babysitting it. I would not consider the DS-51 myself but it doesn't bother me that others do. Just don't say it's foolproof and robust (or that the Inon is flimsy!).

A Subal housing will not close (I understand) unless its o-ring is properly seated. Some housings have redundant captured o-ring seals. The Inon battery compartment cannot be compromised from over-tightening and does not rely on tightness for its seal. These are design features that help users avoid floods and it is unfair to these engineering improvements to sweep such issues under the rug by dismissing all failures as user error and claiming that every product works when maintained properly. Arguing the symantics of design failure is simply an exercise in language; there are real differences in the design of these products.

I am not trying to turn this into a strobe advocacy thread. Every strobe has unique characteristics that make it more or less attractive than its competition. The DS-51 is attractive here because it offers eTTL with the housing and camera chosen. My point is that one of the strengths of the Inon strobes over the DS-51 is foolproof design of its battery compartment. Whether that matters depends on how much the DS-51's features are important and how the user inherently cares for his gear.

I've never flooded a strobe, or a camera, in 17-18 years. Just a couple of flashlights. Knock on wood!

The flat face closing o-rings are so dead simple, how could anyone find it difficult? Clean, inspect under bright lights, and reassemble. Totally clear and out in the open what is happening.

I could not agree that an invisible captured o-ring is anywhere near as reliable, or foolproof, as a seal you can see.

One who finds the DS-50/51 strobes difficult to live with, will be hating life, when it comes to taking expensive electronics under water, I would think.

I guess everyone is different. Each to her/his own. But really!

The SS and DS200 strobes used a piston o-ring seal. So do the Inons. They literally are foolproof - the back doesn't even need to be tightened - it's just there to make sure that it doesn't pop off. A great design.

The DS125 uses a captured face-sealing o-ring, but this one is preloaded to a specific amount by the cam on the back. There's no judgement - you flip the cam and it's closed correctly.

The DS and SS50's and 51 require some judgement to get the right seal. I think this creates some room for error. If the nut isn't tightened up enough, sometimes the strobe won't turn on. You have to tighten it or loosen it sometimes to get good battery contact.

No judgement from me in this thread - I have and use may different brands of strobes.

Cheers

James

First of all, until this past May, I have almost always used Ikelite strobes. I have on occasion used Sea & Sea and Nikonos strobes. I now have two Z240 Inon strobes.

Over the course of the last 8 years I have had to send back for repair many times all models of Ikelite strobes that I owned. This inlcuded SS200, DS125 and now the DS51. I found that reliability was a big issue, so much so that I began carrying three SS200 strobes, then three DS125 units. During the last year of use, the DS125 units all performed flawlessly.

Now, just the facts: I've had one SS200 on its first dive after servicing. I've had one DS51 fail right out of the box. Another flooded at the end of the last dive of a trip. I've had the center column/door screw get bent during transport. Whether all the issues I've had over the years have been design flaws, manufacturing issues or quality control issues is hard to say. I can definitely say I've had far too many failures to be within an acceptable failure rate.

I still use and sell Ikelite gear, but I refuse to be a apologist for their quality. If 90 out of 100 users experience a problem, positive posts from the other 10 do not make the problems go away.

Even after all that, I'm not sure I like the Inon's better.

Craig, you can close and flood a Subal by having the o-ring out of the groove. I can vouch for it.

I also had a DS50 fail right out of the box, but in the other hand it´s replacement it´s been working flawless since that at least a couple of years. I Also have 125´s and most of the time I go homer simpson every time i grab it from the back (Ouch!!...) Thank god never flood a strobe (knock on wood...)

Every people I dive with, us ike´s (except one wich use Inon´s) and think they are good, but I also think they have a huge room for improvement in quality control... Thank god they balance this flaw with great customer service...

Thanks for the different opinion, guys.

I think I am not going to take a chance on the Ikes. If I were still based in the US, I would have... but given the shipping costs from where I am these days, it aint worth the risk. Besides, for more or less the same price as the Ike DS51, I can get an Inon D2000s or Sea&Sea YS110 - more power, larger coverage. I am pretty happy shooting in manual anyway, so that isnt a problem either. Yeah, ETTL would have been nice, but it is silly to go for ETTL instead of a better strobe.

Now the other big question - Inon or Sea&Sea. With the former, I get faster recycle and working S-TTL. With the latter, I get cable-fired - and so not only can I use it with my DSLR rig at a pinch but I reduce the risk of fogging (which isnt much, it seems). However, TTL doesnt work.

The Inon is probably a better strobe, but balancing that is Inon's customer service - which ranks somewhere between "heinous" and "putrid." A more disagreeable company to deal with, I cannot think of. So looks like the Sea&Sea may get a look after all.

Vandit

I dont mean to put a spanner in the works but I find the S&S strobes OK, but the sevice dept suck and I have moved to Ikelite. Last time they took 4 months to repair my gear.

Doh. Well, atleast they repaired yours. Inon wrote off mine because of a few drops of salt water in it.