YS-110 - seems too dim; has anyone had a similar problem?

I wonder if anyone has been across the problem of YS-110 emitting too little light.

"Too little" is of course my own feeling. Still, when I test YS-110 shooting the dark corner of my office vs shooting the same corner with Oly E-330's own little pop-up flash - the result is obviously some +30 % in favour of the pop-up flash. How come an expensive strobe with 3 Xenon tubes fails to outflash a tiny single-tube pop-up?

Or am I doing anything wrong?

First, I made the YS work with the fiber-optic cable pretty much in the same way Roger Carlson shows here. Actually, it was easier as 10BAR housing allows enough space for the pop-up to turn on without a need to fiddle with a toothpick.

Second, the strobe works OK in TTL mode (though I have some doubts whether it is a real TTL or not, but at least it preflashes OK and fires synchronously). It does NOT work in both manual modes which is a bit different from what its manual promises but whatever.

Third, here we are getting to the point, although it does fire in TTL, it produces far too little light. And it is on the surface, not yet in murky waters 30 m down. I fear when taken underwater, the light it emits will be simply not enough even to colour up objects 1 m away.

Any suggestions?

Thank you.

A strobe with a DSLR should be fired using a hardwired sync cord, not an optical sunc cord. No doubt you're getting inconsistent results and no manual flash. You won't get TTL, only manual, as Oly has a proprietary TTL electronics. You alredy have the port on the housing, all you need is a cord.

Jack

"A strobe with a DSLR should be fired using a hardwired sync cord, not an optical sunc cord."

And why is that? It seems to me more a function of the strobe in question rather than the optical design of the camera.

I am getting the best results I have ever seen in TTL using the Inon Z-240 strobes with fiber optic cables and the Olympus E-410 camera. Better than my fifteens years with hard wired TTL on the Nikonos RS, Nik five, Nikon housed cameras and others.

The YS-110 has a guide number of #22 twice that of the popup flash on the E330 and enough power to expose ISO 25 film without a problem.

I would try turning off any focus assist in the menu as it my cause a per flash on the YS-strobe. Likely you are recording a pre-flash from the YS-strobe not a full dump of power.

I have also been told by those in the business that the YS-110 does not work in TTL with fiber optics and many of the DSLR cameras even though it should.

Fiber optics has great upsides over hard wiring and is the wave of the future.

Phil Rudin

hey cathay, sorry you're having problems...

the strobe should definetly work in manual mode... there are 2 knobs on the strobe you have to set correctly..

try to get it to work in manual mode before you try TTL...

make sure you have the one dial on each strobe set to "slave".

in addition, for manual mode, you may need to tell the ys-110 to ignore the first preflash of the oly camera. If you look carefully at the power knob of the strobe, you'll see 2 settings written on the strobe, "manual 1" and "manual 2", try both of those... don't turn the power knob of the strobe all the way to "TTL"

I can assure you the Ys-110 has no problem "lighting things up", let us know if my advice takes care of the problem...

scott

.......

 

I would try turning off any focus assist in the menu as it my cause a per flash on the YS-strobe. Likely you are recording a pre-flash from the YS-strobe not a full dump of power.

 

I have also been told by those in the business that the YS-110 does not work in TTL with fiber optics and many of the DSLR cameras even though it should.

 

Fiber optics has great upsides over hard wiring and is the wave of the future.

 

Phil Rudin

Phil thank you very much for reply.

That all looks too bad now, doesn't it... Had I known YS had problems I'd have bought an INON...

But the question now is what to do in a given situation. In future I might as well get an INON (buying the second flash is anyway on the agenda) and use the YS as a slave to INON although this cross-breed duo might have another set of problems originating from their Montecchi/Capuletti discord. Anyway it is pretty much in future and before I invest in another piece of equipment I'd much prefer to well understand why the strobe I have already works in such a lousy way.

I tried disabling flash AF illumination as you advised although I was surely not recording a pre-flash. Things went a lot trickier: in Manual 1 setting the YS fires EXACTLY EVERY SECOND TIME (although in real full power)!! What is even more weird, AF illumination can be disabled in Underwater wide and canNOT be disabled in Underwater macro mode. In Manual 2 YS simply does not work, and in TTL it delivers the same low light flash as with AF illumination on. What comes to my mind is, What if it is in fact a REAL TTL and the camera+flash system simply somehow decide this amount of light should be enough for the occasion...

Pity I can't arrange a trip to HK within the nearest couple of weeks to try a hard wire cable (not available in China mainland where I am stationed) although I hate the idea of downgrading from the f-o line back to the wire. I will try it as soon as I put my hands on it if you think it might be the one and only solution.

Would be nice if the technical people from Sea&Sea gave themselves a job to monitor forums like this, hehehe...

Mark

A strobe with a DSLR should be fired using a hardwired sync cord, not an optical sunc cord. No doubt you're getting inconsistent results and no manual flash. You won't get TTL, only manual, as Oly has a proprietary TTL electronics. You alredy have the port on the housing, all you need is a cord.

 

Jack

Thank you Jack,

Well, it does make sense in a way "always follow the manual and never try to outsmart the hardware". Still, if we can somehow trick the YS into following the pop-up there is nothing bad in it. Or, is there? Hard wire cable is stone age, plus it is a lot less safe as it increases the danger of flooding the contacts.

Now, the strobe somwhow does work with fiber-optic line between itself and a camera. Let us try to dig out, WHY it fires half-power? And WHY, as it happened after Phil Rudin suggested to turn off the AF illumination, it started working in Manual 1 mode full power but accurately and precisely every second time?

I don't think I am the only one in possession of an Oly E-330 + YS-110 system so perhaps there might be somebody who managed to overcome the limitations.

Mark

Hi Kathay,

As a side bar I would put the camera in manual mode for both macro and wide angle. The scene modes just add less personal control to the problem.

I have had the E-300, E-330 and now E410 and have used all in manual mode U/W for best results. Try manual mode on the camera and see if it makes a diffrence.

Try 1/160th shutter speed for macro and 1/60th at F5.6 in 15 to 20 meters for W/A as a starting point at ISO-100.

Phil Rudin

Hi Kathay

Thank you! Definitely worth trying.

Will do it first thing next morning.

P.S. Mark is the name; Cathay is the old English name for China where I've been living since 1996

Whatever fires your strobe, (lights your fire?)...

But with a hardwired strobe cord there is two-way communication. The camera knows there is a strobe and the strobe knows there is a camera. No pre-flash issues, etc. It is not stone age, believe me.

I sell the Fantasea version of this housing and F.O. sync is not the recommended configuration.

Jack

But with a hardwired strobe cord there is two-way communication. The camera knows there is a strobe and the strobe knows there is a camera. No pre-flash issues, etc.

Two-way communication might be a good point. So, based on your experince in the trade - have cases like mine been brought to your attention before?

Some people keep on telling me that Oly E-330 and YS-110 simply do not match just because they do not match and little can be done if anything at all. Oly E-330 and INON D 2000W - OK, Oly E-330 and INON Z 240 II - OK, Oly E-330 and S&S YS-30 II TTL Duo - OK, but Oly E-330 and S&S YS-110 - no way, full stop. (see the chart here)

Does it sound convincing to you?

Again, OK, hardwire is hardwire, I feel I am going to give up, BUT - will I need any additional gadgets like adapters or whatever? I'm in China mainland, the nearest place to go for it is Hong Kong... not that far in fact but so inconvenient. So if I really have to drag myself there at least I'd hope to know exactly what I need there!

You are an expert in this sort of equipment, so any opinion and advice will be so much appreciated. I hate thinking that buying a YS-110 was a stupid waste

Mark

Some may call it "two way communication" while others would call it an opportunity for the strobe to screw up the camera. Optical isolation is considered an advantage worth paying for in many applications.

Just what features does "two way communication" afford the DSLR shooter, I mean besides the headache of TTL hotshoe wiring problems and intermittent, inscrutable failures caused by the weakest link in the system? Does the camera, or the system, in any way benefit from the "two way" feature? Of course it doesn't. Other than Nexus (who's system doesn't even work with DSLRs), what manufacturer uses "ready" information from the strobe? What other potential "two way" information is there?

The main problem with fiber sync is that it is not ubiquitous and different implementations offer different capabilities. Nikon CLS is fully capable of running over fiber (if there were any underwater products that implemented it). Fiber is technically capable of everything hardwire currently offers but with the advantage of electrical isolation. Fiber is, or should be, far cheaper and more rubust, it weighs less, is field-repairable and offers less drag underwater. The choice is a no-brainer, fiber is far superior.

The choice is a no-brainer, fiber is far superior.

Craig I am entirely on your side when thinking about the future of fiber optic vs that of hardwire. No doubt within a few years, let us say, 5, we will all forget that ridiculous hot shoes and our debates about what was better, 5-pin or 4-pin connectors, etc.

Still I can get Jack's point as well. For now the f-o line is little more than a rope tied to a gun's trigger: as the elephant passes by and pulls the rope, the trigger goes off. I [foolishly] thought that would be enough. Sadly, now I have to ask for help rather than for critique on my recent underwater pictures that were all screweed up because of the strobe problem.

So for me the question is not, Which is better, f-o or hardwire. I knw it without asking. The question is, WHAT THE HELL TO DO in a situation when I have already paid for the bloody useless strobe and it turned out as useless underwater as a Zippo lighter in an oxygen filling station.

I think what Jack is doing is not talking me into that hardwire religion but simply telling me that no matter good or bad but that might be the only way to make the damned thing do its job.

Your implementation of fiber may be that way but that doesn't mean all are. In the same way, though, a conventional sync cord is little more than a rope tied to a gun's trigger. The difference between the two is simply implementation details except that fiber offers wet plugging and electrical isolation--both huge advantages. Theoretically, 5 or 6 pin wired strobes can offer sophisticated two-way communication. So can fiber. In the reality of what's available, you'd be hard pressed to argue that wire offers consistently more than fiber regarding capability. Digital TTL is flakey and some accurate examples actually use fiber.

I'm all for doing what it takes to get your strobes working and I understand that's what you are after. If you think Jack is helping you do that my stating that DSLRs should always use hardwiring, then more power to you.