Nikon D80 -> Fisheye -> Overexposure

Hi guys, I use a D80 in an ikelite-housing, and the tokina 10-17mm fisheye. I know my gear, shooting some 20000shots a year.

There's one thing that bugs me about the fisheye:

no matter if i shoot on land or underwater, almost every single fisheye shot would overexpose if i wouln't manually underexpose at least 1.3stops. By overexpose i mean huge areas with clipped channels. Camera would even allow for 1/3-1/2 of the image to clip into pure white, and not only areas at the image borders. All this while using the matrix metering. The same camera, same matrix metering mode with the tokina 12-24mm and i get spot on exposures. Of course the fisheye is wider, but the 12-24 is also very wide and exposes correctly. I have the feeling that nikons metering system (at least the one in the d80) is absolutely unable to handle the fisheye. Imagine a boring, normal land shot, late afternoon, no sun in or near the image, horizon in the middle to mask fisheye distortion, blue sky above, ocean and rocks below, and i have to dial in -1.3stops, wile the 12-24mm is spot on!

Anyone noticed this? Are the higher-end nikon dslr better?

I don't use matrix metering much, played with it and even on my Sigma 17-70 had over-exposure problems, not to the extent you did though. I think it over thinks the shot. D200 uses the same system AFAIK.

I use center-weighted spot with quite good results, maybe opening it up 1/2 stop if there's shadows.

Jack

I don't use matrix metering much, played with it and even on my Sigma 17-70 had over-exposure problems, not to the extent you did though. I think it over thinks the shot. D200 uses the same system AFAIK.

 

I use center-weighted spot with quite good results, maybe opening it up 1/2 stop if there's shadows.

 

Jack

Thanks Jack, i should also play around with the center-weighted average mode. It's a pitty because i've learned to predict the matrix metering system on land, and it works nicely, except for the fisheye. I like when the camera has good automations like matrix metering and ttl support for uw work, as i take all my shots freediving. Having to correct too much is very distracting when im down there on one breath.

Is anyone else having similar problems with the fisheye? C'mon guys i know there are a lot of tokina 10-17 users out there! What about this lenses behaviour on the d200 or d2x? What metering mode do you guys use?

Using WA I allways use manual exposure set between -1EV and -1.7EV on medium blue, using spot metering. I then set strobe power to match the subject size and distance.

If you freedive, the mechanics may be fairly the same: you know the depth you will be diving to, so you set exposure for that depth (the speth and angle of the shot should be more or less the same for all shots on the same exposure). From then on, you sould only change exposure when you want to change the conditions of the shot.

Are you using strobes? TTL or manual?

Not only am I questioning which strobe or strobes are you using but also are you using the 6inch dome port of the 8 inch dome port?

I'm asking is because I plan to use the D80 in a Ike housing as well. I currently have a Ike substrobe 150 and would have to use it manually and could possibly use an old helix strobe in slave position.

Are any of you using non-digital strobes?

If you are using the 6 inch dome port...which I have, what WA lenses asre you using that will fit the 5303.?

I'm using the 10-17 mostly used on a D70 and now (once so far) on a D80. I always dial in under exposure if I'm including the surface or anywhere near to the surface. I've found that the sensor is unable to handle the range of exposure from the bottom of the shot to the top. The meter seems to go for the mid way which is what I'd expect but the top of the shot is so much lighter it just blows out. I have found a similar problem with a 12-24 zoom but to a lesser extent. Only used the fisheye lens underwater so I can't comment on above water use.

Hi Papa,

I have read this post a couple of times - and finally it piqued my curiosity enough to actually go and get the 10-17mm from the other room!

First, I have never shot the 10-17mm on auto-exposure and matrix-metering as I always shoot this lens on manual exposure underwater (as most others here do). So I really didn't know the answer.

Anyway I tried the 10-17mm and a 105mm on my D80 here in the house (aperture priority and matrix metering) - and both produced consistent exposures (no exposure comp and neither clipped highlights) when I shot the same subject.

That said, on land I will often dial in -0.3 to -0.7 Exp. Comp. with the D80 when shooting typical scenes. Underwater when I occasionally shoot aperture priority (mainly for fast moving and unpredictable subjects) I increase this significantly to about -1.0 to -1.7 Exp. Comp. because underwater backgrounds look best darker than your average sky (which is what your camera is programmed to correctly expose - and therefore you need to tell the camera to underexpose). I am sure you know all this - I repeat it for those who may not.

Here is an example photo I took with the 10-17mm on Aperture Priority and Matrix Metering. In this case I dialed in -1.7 exp. comp. because I was shooting right into the sun.

The main problem usually associated with shooting fisheyes on auto exposure and matrix metering is that they see such a wide field of view that the camera's metering can easily be upset by the very large range of exposures required for different parts of the frame. This is particularly true underwater where the frame may include deep dark water, dark silhouetted subject, bright surface and even a sunburst.

Anyway in short - my 10-17mm produces consistent exposures to my 105mm macro lens on the D80 (when used in the fairly flat lighting in my house). Hope that this helps.

Alex

Alex

Thanks for the reply guys...

@caymaniac: im using the 6" port (5503) and the ds125 strobe. ttl and this fast strobe (takes only 2secs to fully recharge between flashes) are super handy for freediving. I have no other lens compatible with the 5503 port. With the 6" port and the fisheye i often get some nasty reflections on the port :-(

Check ikelite's list of recommended port-lens-combinations: http://www.ikelite.com/web_pages/2port_nikon.html

@Alex: thanks a lot for testing alex! Have you by chance updated the d80 firmware? I didn't, and who knows maybe newer firmware versions don't show that problem. Underwater i usually run between -1.3 to -2.3 when there is anything bright anywhere in the frame (surface, sunrays, sand). Shooting downward (no sand bottom) i get more consistent results, leaving the compensation around -0.7 EV. Hats off to the terrific sunrays behind the sealion!

papafly,

Pull your DS125 strobe back farther, especially with the Tokina at 10mm.

Also aim the strobe head straighter versus angled in. The wide beam angle should cover it.

Signed,

Santa's Helper

Hey Santa's Helper, the issues are not with the flash, but rather with available light shots. It is interesting though shots that i light with the flash seem easier for the camera: naturally the light is more balanced and the frame is more evenly lit.

So, basically, having the flash on (ttl mode) is a smooth ride, and having it turned off i'm in crazy rollercoaster territory...

With the 6" port and the fisheye i often get some nasty reflections on the port :-(

I had the same issue with 10.5mm, 6" port and strobes pulled back. The reason was that the housing is transparent and strobes would light the inside of the port through the housing.

I put same black tape around port opening in the housing and some black foam inside the port (to form a circle between the lens and port walls. That solved the problem.

Actually, I think that may help with strong ambient light from rear or sides too.

PapaFly,

Just so that you don't feel alone, just to let you know I find exactly the same with exactly the same setup. The solution for me was to shoot manual and to avoid certain types of shots. What I find is the Tokina/D80 doesn't like shots that are very bright on one edge and much darker on the other (very common on a good day in UK water at shallow depths) - which face it is quite understandable. I use the Tokina a lot to do panoramas topside and these can only be done on manual IMHO. If I do use the D80 without shooting manual then I've been using centre-weighting - You can get very different results in certain types of shots. On my first trip (Red Sea) with the setup I ended up with loads of useless shots, I'm looking forward to going back in January and putting that right!

Rob

@aczyzyk: thanks for the tip, i'll try some tape/foam to get rid of the reflections!

@cussy: you hit the nail on the head there: metering shots with large differences in brightness is absolutely horrible. I've had huge blowouts even when dialing in -2.7EV! As i freedive while shooting, using the fisheye comes down to a stamina game

This is a bit odd. I've found matrix metering fine on land and in the water with a D70 and the 10.5mm Nikon lens, with 0.5 to 1.5 stops underexposure. It hasn't mattered whether I've used a big dome or a small custom dome with an Anthis/Nexus setup. I do prefer manual exposure underwater, and measure close to the subject using spot or center-weighted metering, but haven't seen horrendous clipping (just unpleasant clipping) with automatic exposure.

Is this a problem specific to the Tokina fisheye?

Needless to say, the D200 seems to work as well; both auto exposures:

Tim

B)

While everyone has been giving great advice on the topics of overexposure, metering modes, etc. with regard to PapaFly's problem, I think everyone has overlooked one possible cause.

It could be that his lens is actually damaged. Seeing that other people get good results with the same setup, and he gets good results with the same body and different lenses, I would suspect the lens as being the cause.

PapaFly, can you try the lens on a different body, or another 10-17 on your D80? Before you drive yourself nuts trying to figure out why it works for other people and not you, I would make sure the hardware is actually functioning properly.

I've had no problem with exposures with my D80 and 10-17mm lens..topside, or underwater

scott