Macro: 60mm & 1.4 T/C or 105mm

Hi Guys,

I was after some advice or opinions or both. I remember when film was the only 'way', and that the 105mm micro lens had achieved legendary status as the 'must have' piece of gear for macro. Now that we have digital and suffer from 1.5/1.6 equivalencies or cropping factors, I was wondering if the 105mm is still 'the' way to go?

When I plonk the 105mm in front of my D70S it suddenly becomes a 157mm approx., and this is a long way from the 105mm magic figure. Now when I put the 60mm micro and a Kenko 1.4 teleconvertor in front of the old D70S, this multiplies out to approx 115mm and is a lot closer to the 105mm magic mark...

So, my good friends, I ask you collectively as to which combination is now considered to be the better for macro? Also, I consider macro to be macro and not super macro and not close-up photography. I'm looking at taking pics of blenny sized fish and nudibranchs and little crabs etc.. If I want more magnification or super macro, I will use one of my wet diopters or bung the 1.4T/C onto the 105mm and go all out, but this is not what I am trying to achieve...

Is the old 105mm really the magic mark or...???

How does the 60mm and 1.4T/C combination stack up against the 105mm ??

Thanks for taking the time fellas,

Bruce...

I use the 105 today with my 2x on a D200. Very shallow DOF but you can get some really cool stuff with shallow dof. You must be VERY still, proping your rig on a rock to stabilize it. But it works for me and can produce quite dramatic results.

Joe

TC and 60mm would be a good combo. I have used 60mm and 2xTC in the past as well as 2XTC and 20mm to approximate the ol 60mm on film. I quite enjoy that combo.

I can't really see any downfalls for your combo, i don't think there is a "cat's meow" when it comes to lens choice, use what works for you and gives the results you want

Bruce, you're forgetting here that without the teleconverter your 60mm lens will allready be a 90 mm due to the cropfactor.

Buggar, your absolutely right Gerard...

Mike's bloody meowing cat made me do it...

Quick calculation comes out at ummm,...126mm.

Anyway, still closer than 157mm...

It is still a darn good question though...

Bruce...

I hope that all these calculations aren't turning me into a 'left brainer'...???

Buggar, your absolutely right Gerard...

Mike's bloody meowing cat made me do it...

Quick calculation comes out at ummm,...126mm.

Anyway, still closer than 157mm...

 

It is still a darn good question though...

 

Bruce...

 

I hope that all these calculations aren't turning me into a 'left brainer'...???

I've always found that the 60mm micro alone was great to use for what you are describing - macro shots without being supermacro or close-up photography. In general, if you can avoid using a TC, you have an advantage in terms of available light (might work better for autofocus if you don't manually focus), and as well, no extra port extension (or new port, depending on how your port system works). Plus with less glass there may be some improvement in sharpness. The 60mm lens on the cropped sensor will have an equivalent viewing angle of 90mm, which isn't quite the 105mm you're looking for, however, it may be more flexible to be on the shorter side of 105mm than longer.

Hi Warren,

I am going to give the 60mm+1.4T/C one last try tomorrow morning.

If it doesn't produce what i am looking for, then I will be ditching it.

I was trying to be lense specific and staying away from the cropped

105mm which in my opinion is a little too restrictive for my purposes.

I normally use the 60mm on its own but when I do, I seem to find

myself using the wet diopter more often than not. I am not really sure

what the magnification of the Nexus wet diopter is, but I was trying to

repeat its performance with quality lenses rather than add on diopters.

Most of my swimming is under piers and the target creatures are small

to very small. I have no focus problems as I use a focus light...

Anyone with any better ideas???

PLEASE ???

Bruce...

I've been using the 60mm with a Tamron PRO 1.4x and find it to be a good choice when compared to the 60mm alone. It isn't so quick to focus, specially on litle moving creatures (like gobies on moving corals), but is very good for nudibrachs, fish portraits, blennies, etc. allowing for a bit more of safety space for them.

I tried to put a Kenko 1.4 T/C between the Canon 60mm and my Canon 20D but the two lenses were not compatiable. The Kenko 1.4 T/C did mount onto the Canon 100 but not the 60. Am I missing something here?

TomC

Bruce, how about a Nikon 6T diopter on the 60mm, might bring the focusing too close, but worth a try if a friend has one you can borrow. It's a doublet so much higher quality than the Woody's.

Another alternative is the Inon doublet wet diopter which you can hold outside the port with your left hand. Be careful of mantids though, i was doing this and got my finger whacked.

Another alternative is the Inon doublet wet diopter which you can hold outside the port with your left hand. Be careful of mantids though, i was doing this and got my finger whacked.

This is something I've considered: switching from the Woody Diopter to a double element diopter like the Inon. Athena does sell a 67mm adapter for certain housing ports.

http://www.athena-opt.com/ringflashe.htm

inon also sells a thing that looks like a magnifying glass, with no glass in it. Into that you can screw the diopter and then attach it via a strobe arm.

final point - is it Diopter or Dioptre. I have conflicting spell check issues in my firefox

IMO a diopter with the 60mm is just too much. Focusing distance with the 60mm is already short, so adding a diopter makes it really difficult to frame, focus, and use the strobe.

Moreover, the TC is good for fish portraits, where the diopter does not help.

Hi Guys,

With my Nexus rig, I have a custom port made by Pete Laddell( supurb craftsman) for my 60mm micro.

I had Peter make me this port so that the Inon Z-22 ring flash could be mounted to the front of it.

As Luck would have it, I am able to snugly fit the Kenko 1.4 T/C in with no other modifications. Using the Inon Z-22 ring flash also allows me the luxury of screwing an Inon #3 wet lens into the front of the ring flash

I know that the #3 wet lens is a different lens to the other 67mm lenses that Inon make because they use a different pitch thread for the #3 so that it can't be interchanged with the other 67mm screw ins. So far, I have not been able to work/find out how this lens works. I am unsure as to whether it magnifies or shotens focus distance? The 60mm micro focuses close enough without shortening the distance any. This will also require some experimentation, unless someone has prior knowledge with using one of the Inon #3 lenses?

I have installed a wire scrim into the front of the Inon Z-22 ring flash to help with the consistent over exposures that I was getting from this strobe. The scrim that I have installed is a minus 2stop and has shown great results so far. Although I now have to take into consideration the loss of one Fstop because of the installation of the 1.4 T/C.

Think that I might go back to a point and shoot; it was alot easier AND a lot cheaper...

Bruce

Inon #3 lens allows to focus the lens closer to the subject. In fact, as a lens, it is the same as the UCL-330 lens, but with a different thread. This is why I don't find it very useful with the 60mm, which already focus very close.

¡Yes, the P&S was easier to rig, but it wasn't so much fun!

Hi Warren,

I am going to give the 60mm+1.4T/C one last try tomorrow morning.

If it doesn't produce what i am looking for, then I will be ditching it.

I was trying to be lense specific and staying away from the cropped

105mm which in my opinion is a little too restrictive for my purposes.

I normally use the 60mm on its own but when I do, I seem to find

myself using the wet diopter more often than not. I am not really sure

what the magnification of the Nexus wet diopter is, but I was trying to

repeat its performance with quality lenses rather than add on diopters.

Most of my swimming is under piers and the target creatures are small

to very small. I have no focus problems as I use a focus light...

Anyone with any better ideas???

PLEASE ???

 

Bruce...

I can see what you're getting at .... and the 1.4x will bring the 60mm to 84mm. At this focal length, you're not as restricted as the 105mm, but at the cost of those factors I mentioned.

When using the wet diopter on the 60mm do you find you're almost bumping into your subject?

The 60mm has really replaced the 105mm as the most popular lens for cropped sensor cameras underwater. For static subjects its still a 1:1 lens and can achieve the results you are used to. 90mm effective is the same as Tameron users are familur with and isn't that different from 105mm or 100mm as Canon would have it.

Adding a 1.4TC isn't really necessary IMHO and has the downside of subtracting light which will make autofocusing harder. Now you need a focus light that introduces hotspots and spooks critters. You also loose some sharpness which is the whole point of macro. If you want macro with a bit more breathing room (skittish blenys) then the 105mm is still a popular choice.

Personally I'd rather make one of the above two choices work by reframing by a couple of inches than adding TCs to the equation that will only complicate focusing and port setups. This is true if all you want is 1:1.

OTOH adding a TC and or a diopter to a 105mm for super-macro (beyond 1:1) is a perfectly reasonable alternative to the 150 mm or 200mm options. This would also prove a more versitile rig.