First digital SLR camera

I've been collecting equipment for a Sony point and shoot camera for a few years now and I'm pretty sure now that I'd like to make an investment in a digital SLR camera, housing and strobe package.

Anybody out there like to make suggestions on a reliable, simple first time camera that still leaves some room for growth? I'm looking at spending about $500 on the camera.

Thanks.

PS: I would like to find a camera that works as well out of the water as in.

For $500 or under for the body, new, you're looking at the Canon Digital Rebels (350D - 400D), Nikon D40 or D40x, or Olympus E410, E510 type range. There are of course some Pentax offerings and whatnot as well, but if you're after housings usually people go Canon or Nikon, with a smattering of ostracized Olympus users (kidding - I only say that because I went with an Oly e330 a bit ago as my first dSLR). Along with your interest for a somewhat 'budget' body I'm assuming you'd also want to go with a less expensive housing, which means usually Fantasea, Ikelite, or the original manufacturer's in the case of Olympus (I don't think Nikon or Canon offer DSLR housings themselves). I honestly don't know much about Sony but do believe Ike houses at least the A100.

I really couldn't comment on which of those are 'better'. That almost gets into religion sometimes. I just wanted to reply since you're obviously a first time poster so you didn't go by too long without at least getting someone saying "hi".

My suggestion for starting research though: use a good retail outlet like B&H Photo (www.bhphoto.com) and sort cameras by price, to get a list of what is in your range, then read thru reviews at a site like www.dpreview.com to get a feel for how they rate them (they're a fairly conservative "pro minded" review site, writing solely from the above-water perspective (typical photographer), so for example they didn't like some of the features of the E330 much but I was able to figure out what they didn't like didn't really apply to me as it compared to much more expensive cameras and the like, or as I was coming from a Point and Shoot I wouldn't know the difference, etc).

If I were to proselytize Olympus since that's all I do have experience with (my E330 and played with my dad's E500 quite a bit before I bought), I'd probably point you to a thread in the DSLR subforum that reviews the E410 by Phil Rudin (tropical1)...sorry I'm not linking to it directly, might do so in an edit later. It's a small, light, entry level DSLR that gets pretty good reviews at places like dp and that Phil makes a stellar case for as an entry-level underwater unit on merits of performance for the price and for the bulk. He likes the Oly housings as well. (Although I love my E330, I can't question those with true experience saying the E410 is a better choice today. Well, I can try, I just can't win....so I don't want you to mistake my own enthusiasm for my own first DSLR toy for an educated recommendation. )

Bottom line if you're going dSLR I don't think you'll have a problem with a camera that works as well "out of the water as in", especially at that price range. If you've already shot underwater with a PnS you have some ideas of what specific features are helpful for underwater use (access to white balance, ability to save RAW format, lower-light focusing, whether you have to hit two controls at once for some settings which can be hard in a housing). More likely anything you get will be fine out of the water...today's cheap dSLRs are way better than a lot of yesterday's pro units.

What you'll be sacrificing at that price range is more megapixels (you'll probably find everything in the 8 - 10 MP type range, as good as or better than most point-n-shoots, but not hugely higher), faster shooting (not that important when underwater strobe recharging becomes the driving delay factor), hugely longer battery life with the big "pro" level camera grips, and perhaps color bit level...but the higher end camera bodies seem to go up in price, quick!

Speaking of price, with dSLR's the lenses are what really limits the potential image quality above water, assuming proper lens choices then lighting is the most limiting factor as I understand it below, so don't expect that the $500 is "it" by any means. Expect you'll want to spend at least another $400 for at least one reasonably good lens, and then the housing costs will be $1000 - $1600 ballpark (housing plus one lens port, again assuming something like Ike or Fantasea), and then possibly on the order of $400-600 per strobe and arm (or more). I myself haven't gotten beyond a cheapie used old strobe on my digicam yet...still been at the lens acquisition stage.

Welcome to the asylum.

Well you can actually get the Olympus E410 with a lens for around that price on Ebay from an Olympus reseller. Cameta camera is a good one.

Some more things to think about:

The good news is that the market has plenty of excellent entry-level dSLRs, with similar levels of function, any of which take great pics. Personally, I'd go to the local camera store and try them all - part of the fun of my dSLR is how nice it feels to use it, so ergonomics are important to me. If you upgrade the camera body in future, you'll probably find the controls more or less in the same places if you stick with a brand - nothing more annoying than having to pull the camera away from your eye to figure out how to adjust something.

The bad news is, the camera is one of the cheapest parts of your underwater system. The housing/ports/strobes together will likely be 3x-5x as much as the camera, and don't get much cheaper for lower-end dSLRs. As compared to your total solution cost, the difference between an entry-level and mid-range camera is not very significant. So, don't cheap out and limit your choice of housings, basically.

Hope that makes sense and is somewhat helpful. Good luck.

The bad news is, the camera is one of the cheapest parts of your underwater system. The housing/ports/strobes together will likely be 3x-5x as much as the camera, and don't get much cheaper for lower-end dSLRs. As compared to your total solution cost, the difference between an entry-level and mid-range camera is not very significant. So, don't cheap out and limit your choice of housings, basically.

Actually for the entry level stuff you can find housings and port for around $1000 bucks from both the OEM and Fantasea. I'm referencing the E410, Canon xti and Nikon D80. Ike is slightly more with the cost running about $1500 for both.

BTW,

Just to add too Tgreen's comments the ergonomics of the housing are also important. In particular, the most frustrating thing I find about my E410 is the difficulty changing the aperture in manual mode. It requires a button depression while using the thumbwheel. The thumbwheel is great but getting to that button on the housing, underwater, requires two hands and some practice. Its not easy.

Cheers,

Gary

Since you seems to been bitted by the UWP bug, I recommend you that put your money on some used rig like D70s or 20D/30D with Ikelite. If you go with D40 or Canons 350 or 400D you will expend at least 1.200 on housing, add the 500$ for body and some decent lens, nikkor 60mm or sigma 50mm put another 400$, 150$ for port, there you have 2.250+ on new equipment. In a couple of years you will want more and more and more, and you’ll face 2 issues:

1.- Selling your rig it won’t be easy or you’ll lost serious bucks on the process.

2.- You’ll need a new housing again...

When I start I had 2 options, D70s or D50, both cameras are the same regarding mp & image quality with few minor controls difference and size. With the money I had to expend on D70s body I got a D50 and a Sigma 17-70mm lens, so for me was a no brainier.

These days, I admit that the D70s was the best choice, not because produce better image, ´cause it won’t, but for selling the D50' rig could be kind of difficult now that I decided to upgrade to D300. Of course with the money I’m expending on the D300 body only, maybe you could get a D40x, lens and housing, but as I’m telling you, once you are bitted the sickness only grows and grows...

My advice, go used.

...I recommend you that put your money on some used rig....

That's good advice. There is / will always be a good crop of systems available as people upgrade to the latest gear, staying one or even two models back nowadays will still provide excellent results.

I'll add to those who are recommending buy a used camera. The camera I am currently using, a D70S, for which I paid $600 used, can now be easily purchased for $400. In another cost cutting move, I was also able to acquire a used Subal housing for $1,400 from Ryan at ReefPhoto. It worked out quite well as the cost of the Subal housing was not a whole lot different from buying a brand new Ikelite housing. You might want to see if Ryan has any used housings available once you make a decision on the DSLR you will buy.

If you are looking at a Nikon camera, a great place to pick up cameras and lenses is www.nikonians.org

I bought my camera and virtually all of my lenses by using their For Sale forum.

Cheers,

Ellen

Is there a buying guide for used cameras? IE...how many clicks is too many? With underwater gear, if you stick with a vendor like Ryan's Reef Photo, you're buying a company that stands behind what it sells. Is there a similar store for used camera gear?

Is there a buying guide for used cameras?

 

Is there a similar store for used camera gear?

Here is a buying guide for used lenses. It's from www.nikonians.org, but could also be useful to purchasers of other brands of lenses.

Guide to Buying Used Lenses

I don't have a buying guide for used cameras at the moment. I've found, though, that KEH offers accurate ratings on the purchase of used cameras. I actually bought my 105mm lens from KEH.

Second the vote for KEH - their ratings on used equipment are conservative, in my experience (bought a few rated "bargain" that were better than described).

Also like the idea of a used system - if I had it to do over again, I would have done that, and gone with a Subal D70. The other advantage to buying last year's model used is a backup camera body is a lot cheaper.

Thanks to everyone that posted their help on this post!