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Lights, Strobes, and Lighting Technique / Archived topic

Strobes and power settings

Started by bruceterrill ·

  • 12Posts
  • 12Replies

Read-only discussion

Strobes and power settings

12 posts
  1. Hi Guys,

    I am confused as to all the settings and symbols used by manufacturers when labelling their strobes.

    I am certainly no rocket scientist, but, when they are talking guide numbers compared to FStops and

    watt seconds, whew... :( Then there is of course you can use 'half power manual' but if you put the diffuser on, this will drop it by one FStop...well what the hell was it to start with... :wacko:

     

    Can someone please take the time to give me, and others, a strobe 101???

     

    One thing that really puzzles me is; if a strobe is rated at 200watt seconds and is set to 1/4 power, is the resulting flash a 1/4 of the power rating, at 50 watt seconds, or is it the full 200 watt seconds delivered or exposed for a 1/4 of the time that the strobe normally takes to 'quench'?

    BTW, what the hell does 'quench' mean?

     

    I am certain that I am not the only underwater photographer that has not done photography at school or uni, so I am assuming that there are more uncertain souls out there that these and other questions leave

    us slightly embarrassed when trying to work out the answers. Please put my mind to rest before I have to go and see gran'ma for some of her "little white helpers"... :)

     

    Bruce...

  2. Full = 200 watt seconds

    1/2 = 100 watt seconds (full brightness, half the time on strobe pulse)

    1/4 = 50 watt seconds

    etc.

     

    diffusers do cut the power of the strobe down. (but, not necessarily by a full stop; it depends on the diffuser.)

     

    one stop = half the current light _or_ double the current light

     

    quench = power is cut to the flash tube

     

    when using TTL, you can run into two basic problems:

    -aperture too big and strobe too close to subject = strobe cannot quench fast enough (over exposure)

    -aperture too small and/or strobe too far away from subject = strobe does a full dump (under exposure)

     

    Take Care,

    ChrisS

  3. Woohoo, thanks Chris... :)

     

    C'mon fellas, there must be a whole heap of info out there?

     

    Bruce... :wacko:

    Edited by bruceterrill
  4. Bruce,

     

    There is a good "Strobe 101" article called "Flash Photography with Canon EOS Cameras " on the Canon website that explains all of the terms your asking about and then some. There are a bunch of great photo sites on the web for some of these basics. So you have a couple of ways to go. You can study all these, worth a shot, or you might consider reading the manual that came with your strobe, some find it very useful. Most strobe manuals have a table for f-stop and range at different power settings. And surprisingly it actually works. Or, if your like the rest of us, and I am a "rocket scientist" by the way, you can just hook everything up and set up f-8 at 1/180 1/2 power and start taking pictures. If the little screen in the back lights up your close. :wacko:

     

    Steve

    Edited by williamshs
  5. Bruce,

     

    There is a good "Strobe 101" article called "Flash Photography with Canon EOS Cameras " on the Canon website that explains all of the terms your asking about and then some. There are a bunch of great photo sites on the web for some of these basics. So you have a couple of ways to go. You can study all these, worth a shot, or you might consider reading the manual that came with your strobe, some find it very useful. Most strobe manuals have a table for f-stop and range at different power settings. And surprisingly it actually works. Or, if your like the rest of us, and I am a "rocket scientist" by the way, you can just hook everything up and set up f-8 at 1/180 1/2 power and start taking pictures. If the little screen in the back lights up your close. :wacko:

     

    Steve

     

     

    Hee, hee, good answer Steve - you beat me to it. Click the shutter and if its too dark turn the dial to more power. If its too light, try less power. You'll soon get the hang of it. And its more fun that wading through the manuals.

     

    And Steve, come on, a rocket scientist? For real? I think we should start a Wetpixel thread for cool occupations. You're on pole position.

  6. And Steve, come on, a rocket scientist? For real? I think we should start a Wetpixel thread for cool occupations. You're on pole position.
    Hey Chris, I would have to disagree with you partner, Guys like Alex, Eric and Mike and Cor and all the rest have the coolest occupation possible. (Norbert spends too much time on the ice for me but it's definitely cool). All the folks who use their skills and artistic talent to help make the world aware of the need to protect the ocean and this little blue ball have the best "job" in the world. It probably doesn't feel like it at times, but they'd get my vote. Hands down.

     

    Steve

  7. Kudos to Bruce for asking the question. I used to have one ttl strobe and one manual slave and did exactly what Steve suggested. Underexpose and up the power a bit. Overexpose, back it off. Now I just purchased an Inon Z-240 and need a rocket scientist to help figure out all the gizmos and gadgets. Reading the manual gives me a headache. Right now I just leave it on s-ttl and hope for the best. One thing I've learned in my short little underwater career is that lighting is king. Get it right and even a dull composition comes to life. Get it wrong and you could screw up the million dollar shot. Anyway, I guess I'll have to get off my lazy butt and go read some lighting basics.

    Edited by ce4jesus
  8. Hi guys,

     

    I actually hesitated before entering my inquiries onto the forum.

    I felt for sure that some idiot was going to hijack the thread and

    then it would take off in a different direction and would leave like

    minded souls, as myself, out in the dark as to the replies for the

    information that we seek.

    Kudo's to Chris and Gary for keeping the thread on track!

    If anyone else wants to ramble on with BS, Please feel free to start your own BS thread... :wacko:

     

    Bruce...

  9. Bruce

    Please accept my apology. It was unfathomable to me that someone who owned both a subal and nexus housing would not know what a guide number was. I went back and looked at all your posts this year and you clearly are a sensible fellow who does your part to help other folks on the site. I was clearly in error and since everyone I've ever met from Australia was a "good bloke" I will assume that you got up on the wrong side of the kangaroo this morning and I'll try again. From your info on the site it looks like you carry a Ikelite D125. The manual for that little beauty can be found

    here. If you look at the first page you'll see these specs:

    Weight: ......................................................1.2kg (2.7 lbs.) with NiMH

    Energy Rating: ..........................................110 watt-sec.

    Coverage Angle: ........................................90°

    100° with diffuser

    Widest Lens: ..............................................Nikonos 20mm or SLR 24mm

    Nikonos 15mm or SLR 20mm with diffuser

    Guide Number (ISO 100) feet: ................64 surface, 32 underwater

    Guide Number (ISO 100) meters: ............20 surface, 10 underwater

    Firing Modes: ............................................TTL/Auto, Manual, 1/2 M, 1/4 M, 1/8 M

    Slave featuring auto exposure using optional DS Sensor #4100.5

    Slave featuring 10-manual power settings using optional EV-Controller #4100.6

    Color Temperature: ..................................4900°K

    Power Source: ............................................7.2-volt, 2.8 amp NiMH pack

    Flashes: ......................................................250 full power

    Recycle Time: ............................................1.0 seconds (full power)

    Depth Rating: ............................................90m (300 feet)

    We'll come back to the Guide number. If you look on page 20, the guide table I was refering to in the previous post is there.

    It says; quoting from the manual,

    "The exposure label information is primarily intended for use with traditional film

    cameras since digital still cameras may require less light for proper exposure. The

    exposure label is compatible with TTL/Auto and Manual modes and references the

    DS125 strobe output without the diffuser installed.

    So right away they are telling us it really is a guide and not a formula or rule. It will vary with conditions. Some digital cameras will be different. Then they give examples;

    TTL/Auto Mode example for 100 ISO film speed:

    If you select f-8, you can shoot subjects up to 1.2m (4’) away.

    If you select f-4, you can shoot subjects up to 2.5m (8') away; however, underwater

    we recommend selecting subjects no farther than 1.8m (6') away.

    Full Power Manual Mode example for 100 ISO film speed:

    If you select f-8, the subject should be 1.2m (4’) away for proper exposure as

    indicated by the letter M.

    There are 3 positions on the 125 Full, half and qtr. Each one is 1 f/stop so they give this example;

    1/4 Power Manual Mode example for 100 ISO film speed:

    The difference between each power setting is one full f-stop; therefore, moving

    from Full to 1/4 power decreases the light output by two full f��"stops. If you select

    f-8, then reference two less f-stops (two numbers greater) than f-8 in the chart,

    which is f-16. Subject should be 0.6m (2’) away for proper exposure.

    So here is the rule; Guide number / distance = f/stop

    Your D125 has a guide number of 10 underwater using meters (ISO 100) (This info is from the front page of your manual). Lets see if we get the same numbers as the table. So 10 div by 2 meters = an aperture of 5

    :wacko:

    Sounds about right. A couple other things to keep in mind. The guide number refers to the strobe to subject distance not the camera distance, so if your hand holding or doing macro it's the strobe distance that counts. One other important point then I'll shut up. The actual flash on time varies with the power. You'll notice on your chart that there are minimum distances. The bar doesn't go all the way from zero to 2 meters. If you are too close with too big an aperature the strobe cannot turn off in time(Quench) so you will be over exposed.

    I hope I got this right. If not somebody will correct me.

    Steve

  10. Hi Steve,

    With you being from a "Rocket Scientist" back-ground, I am sure that you have heard of the old saying that 'There is more than one way to skin a cat' ? Being from a "Colonial" back-ground and generally of a sneaky and devious nature, I thought that I might try a different approach. In my very humble opinion it worked and I got a bloody fantastic answer from you... :wacko:

    Not all of us have as many brains as we do bucks! I saved very hard for the equipment that I use, and I didn't stop half way. I wanted the best so that I had no-one else, or nothing else, to blame for bad pics.

    Maybe I should have saved for a few lessons as well?

    I was spoiled and was able to start out with TTL through an Ike system. I am now trying very hard to learn the basics of manual strobe control because I don't have any faith in the TTL systems that are available for the current DSLR's.

    I now use a Nexus housed Nikon D70S and some mighty fine old S&S YS120 strobes. I also have an Inon Z-22 ring-flash that I have tried for a long time to get working with the D70S in both TTL and manual. With the Nikon D70S, I have the added problem (?) of the minimum ISO of 200. So this has to be factored into calculations as well...

    Thanks again for your assistance,

    Bruce

  11. As a relatively recent owner of a pair of Z-240's I found their functions and settings somewhat confusing. The manuals did nothing to help my dilema...

     

    With more than a little help from this board and others I seem to have got the measure of the strobes. In doing so, I garnered quite a lot of 'unoffical' guides which I have retained.

     

    Along with jpeg versions of the official English manuals, I will happily make these documents available. Just PM me with your email address.

     

    Perhaps these and similar documents could reside in an online library at Wetpixel - copywrite issues providing...

     

    HTH, Tim

  12. Hi Tim,

    I agree wholeheartedly, their should be a Wetpixel repository on strobe settings and 'other' findings.

    I am sure that it could be constantly updated with newer information and strobes that are new to the

    market could be added and when people have played with them and worked out their different 'pirks

    and quirks' then they too can add the new info.

    I believe that it would be one of the 'go to' sites for info and would also be first port of call for those

    who are looking for info and can't find it with a 'search' of the files. It would also stop a few of the

    same sort of questions being constantly asked in the forums.

     

    Anyway Tim 'PM' has been sent.

     

    Thanks for taking the time,

     

    Bruce...

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