Converting 60i to 24p...Pros & Cons

Folks:

I'm agonizing over whether or not to get rid of my current rig (right, Steve?) and going with a bigger, more powerful camera that shoots 24p. Are the rest of you getting lots of requests for 24p footage? Is it worth it?

I have been very, very happy with the Z1U footage I've acquired over the last couple of years and I would be bummed to have to give up my precious Bluefin for a rig and a camera that I would have to re-learn. It would also be a massive financial commitment. I'm wondering if the investment is that much more worth it to one of the cameras that's a few grand more than my Z1U.

I was browsing the forums tonight and noticed that there was some talk about converting 60i footage to 24p in post to achieve a happy medium. Can any of you give me the positives and the drawbacks to such an approach? I'll be doing it in FCP.

Drew, Shawn, Steve, I'm assuming you FCP guys have some thoughts you could share with the rest of the class...

*hands microphone to other guys*

Dawg

I've only gone from 60i to 60p to 24p for the slow motion effect. Going from 60i to 24P is basically going from 29.97 to 24 fps. Doing a 3:2 pull down works but it also depends on how you shoot. If you have lots of movement, the loss of frames will be difficult to compensate for and you will get that strobic effect. That's why 24p is not the choice for high speed sports or busy shoots. I think the best example of that is the really bad movie GI Jane. The combat scenes in that movie was so badly strobing I had a headache watching it.

Now pertaining to uw, to get good deinterlacing is in itself difficult. Interpolation using various methods can look terrible or just barely acceptable, depending on the program. Whatever you use, you will have a drop in resolution. But don't take my word. Test it yourself. I find After Effects to be more useful for top notch results, but obviously a lot more rendering. FCP is limited to 8 bit only.

Some deinterlacing software you may want to try:

natress filters for color : Great plug-ins for Color

RE:Vision Fx: Field Kit(Deinterlacer) and Twixtor(time warp): Nice workflow and good results in timewarp

Magic Bullet Frames: I have Magic Bullet Suite but not Frames,which does what you need to the letter.

Drew (and everyone else):

What's your general feeling on docs and TV programs shot with mixed frame rates? Topside content in 24p and in-water stuff at 60i...

I'm thinking about splitting the difference and sticking with my very trusty Bluefin housing and Z1U but acquiring an HVX200 for the topside stuff. For a lot of what I do, topside ends up being 50 to 75% of the total program.

Thoughts?

*passes microphone back*

-Aaron

Been wondering the same thing myself Aaron - 50i for underwater and 24p for topside. I'd be interested to hear what everyone thinks...

Cheers, Simon

Doesn't matter what your mix is... you still have to finish in one format (HDCAM or digibeta) and that should be based on either the broadcaster or whomever is buying the program.

You may also note that the HVX200 DVCPro HD is not accepted as a principle HD format unless cleared by the production company.

IMO it depends on what look you're going for. I shoot everything in 24P on my DVX even U/W because I want that cinematic look and feel. You'll never be able to make something 60i look like true 24. The frame rate might be converted but the look will most likely remain the same. Magic Bullet(originally created by the orphanage I believe) will come close to that film look but it's still not quite there. The filters the Drew listed all work great and I highly recommend them as well, I've used the one's he listed. I say get an HVX and use it for everything as long as it meets your output standards.

Billy

Uh oh, the film look subject again.24fps was decided on because it was the minimum speed at which the human mind can still be fooled into thinking it's motion. For beautiful motion, 60fps is better. You can get away with 24fps for most subject that don't move much. Do that in a baitball scene with lots of motion and you get strobic effect.

The new Magic Bullet Looks by Red Giant is about the best and most comprehensive upgrade to a program I've ever seen. It is a huge improvement from the last version and should get you the image appearance that you want. FCP users can now share it with AE as well. Here's the url to my review of it and don't let the hyperbole fool you, it has become an extraordinary application well worth the $. You can buy it individually or as part of the suite. In the suite is also Colorista which I turned down several times last year as I didn't think I needed or wanted it. I was wrong. When I finally agreed to accept it I was surprised at how easy it was to use and how effective it was in color correction which has always been difficult for me as I am a bit color blind. Blame my mother.

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/magic...te_douglas.html

While FC Studio now nicely handles mixed formats, you can suffer lost time as the HDV conforms.

Steve B)