Saron Shrimp ID

I took this picture of a Saron Shrimp at Wakatobi. Any Idea of the kind and type - If it doesn't have a name, can I name it?

Undescribed at this point as far as I know, but it's been known about for a long time. Unless you're the scientist that describes it formally, you don't get to name it; sorry!

Cheers,

Marli

You certainly can name it. I think Fred is a nice name for a shrimp.

But as Marli pointed out the name won't have any scientific validity.

I might be missing something here, but why does one have to be a scientist to name a species? As long as one is precise and thorough why can't a layman discover a species and get the naming rights as a result?

I did a quick search and found this Washington Post article about species naming at this link:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...7091302484.html

One of the things pointed out in the article is this:

"Traditionally, the person who first describes a newfound plant or animal in the academic literature got to name it. There are plenty of other rules in the hundreds of pages of the International Code of Zoological Nomenclature, but those are the most important."

From what I understand, Saron Shrimp are notoriously shy. One book I read said, if you see one, you'll likely get to take a single shot because the Saron will be gone before you can take a second pic - and that's what happened to me.

With the expansion of sucba diving and the breakthrough in underwater photography brought about by digital imagery, it seems to me that underwater photographers may very well be the first to encounter previously unidetified species, and to capture proof of the existance of those species. By restricting naming rights to somone who might actually be the first to encounter and document a new species just does not sit well. Scientists are important - but so are explorers.

So I'm going to try to find out who the Saron Shrimp expert is and send them this picture. If they've never seen this type before, I'm going to claim naming rights. I'm calling it Peggy's Hourglass Saron Shrimp, after my lovely wife.

Great shot! Those little buggers are really shy. My copy of the Ferrari's "Underwater Malaysian Macrolife" (p. 159) says, "According to Debelius (2001) this species should soon be described and finally be named." So you still have a chance!

Sooo when exactly did you see and photograph this little girl? (From the information I have gathered, the male has significantly longer legs. claws in front). Reason being , I managed to find , and photograph some as well recently in the Banda Sea around Suanggi Island. It's my understanding that there is much more involved to identifying and naming a species that just finding it, as those in the know are discovering with the new little frogfish in Ambon.

That being said, cudos on the dicovery and photograph. They are beautiful little creatures aren't they?

I saw Peggy's Hourglass on June 7, 2006, at Wakatobi which is off the Indonesian Island of Sulawesi. Someone else took a picture of the same type (albeit a couple of months after me) which can be found here:

http://forum.kapalselam.org/2006/08/30/saron-shrimp-2/

(This guy is a really good photographer)

Yes some members of the Saron Shrimp family are quite beautiful - hence the desire to name what I saw after my quite beautiful wife Peggy. Can you post your pix Quinn?

Mitch Berger

I might be missing something here, but why does one have to be a scientist to name a species? As long as one is precise and thorough why can't a layman discover a species and get the naming rights as a result?

 

I did a quick search and found this Washington Post article about species naming at this link:

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...7091302484.html

 

One of the things pointed out in the article is this:

 

"Traditionally, the person who first describes a newfound plant or animal in the academic literature got to name it. There are plenty of other rules in the hundreds of pages of the International Code of Zoological Nomenclature, but those are the most important."

 

From what I understand, Saron Shrimp are notoriously shy. One book I read said, if you see one, you'll likely get to take a single shot because the Saron will be gone before you can take a second pic - and that's what happened to me.

 

With the expansion of sucba diving and the breakthrough in underwater photography brought about by digital imagery, it seems to me that underwater photographers may very well be the first to encounter previously unidetified species, and to capture proof of the existance of those species. By restricting naming rights to somone who might actually be the first to encounter and document a new species just does not sit well. Scientists are important - but so are explorers.

 

So I'm going to try to find out who the Saron Shrimp expert is and send them this picture. If they've never seen this type before, I'm going to claim naming rights. I'm calling it Peggy's Hourglass Saron Shrimp, after my lovely wife.

http://www.manandmollusc.net/naming.html

Another naming link ...

Thanks for the link - I don't want to have to kill one of these beautiful creatures to get the naming right.

Masguy

I saw Peggy's Hourglass on June 7, 2006, at Wakatobi which is off the Indonesian Island of Sulawesi. Someone else took a picture of the same type (albeit a couple of months after me) which can be found here:

 

http://forum.kapalselam.org/2006/08/30/saron-shrimp-2/

 

(This guy is a really good photographer)

 

Yes some members of the Saron Shrimp family are quite beautiful - hence the desire to name what I saw after my quite beautiful wife Peggy. Can you post your pix Quinn?

 

Mitch Berger

Well you have me beat. I stumbled across mine the first week of this month.

Post a pic? Sure..

Quinn,

If you were diving someplace in the last month where you could take those pix, I definately don't have you beat, I have severe dive envy - where were you?

Masguy

Quinn,

 

If you were diving someplace in the last month where you could take those pix, I definately don't have you beat, I have severe dive envy - where were you?

 

Masguy

I was diving the Banda Sea on the Archipelago Adventurer II. Discovered on a night dive on the reefs surrounding Suangii Island. The DM had called me over to point out a lobster, and I stumbled on these along the way. I had seen photographs of them before, displayed on the boat and elsewhere , so knew exactly what they were when I spotted them, just adding to the excitment. There were 4 total, as well as the recently molted shell of one. I believe I have photos of both a female and male.

Having to kill one or more to name them??... no thanks, That is part of what I was alluding to in my post, in regards to naming being a bit more involved than one would think. I'll be content to have seen them in their natural habitat and to have had the opportunity to photo them as well.

Hi Mitch -- Although undescribed this particular Saron is very well known. You'll find pictures of it on the web and well as in books like Ferrari's and Debelius's. The delay in describing could be that no one has an actual specimen, only photographs. Another reason may be that shrimp taxonomists are pretty overwhelmed with new species and haven't gotten around to this one yet.

There are different types of names. The most important one is the scientific name which is unique to that species. For some groups like shells amateurs as well as scientists write the original descriptions and bestow the scientific names. Other groups - like crustaceans and worms - are more difficult so usually only scientists do it. Here's an example of a simple shrimp description: http://rmbr.nus.edu.sg/rbz/biblio/54/54rbz321-340.pdf It's the person who describes an animal, not the discoverer, who gets to give it a scientific name (unless collector & describer are the same person). Sometimes the animal is named after the collector or according to the collector's suggestion out of gratitude.

Common names are usually derived from the scientific name, a physical feature, or a nickname. Periclimenes gracilis = graceful Periclimenes shrimp. Long-armed shrimp for a shrimp with very long 1st pair of arms. Pontoh's pygmy seahorse is a nickname based on the UW guide who first found it. The problem with common names is that one animal may have several even in the same area, or one common name is used for several different animals. Red Snapper is used in the US for about 30 different species. Anyone can create a common name - and I think it's a lovely idea to print the photo & dedicate it to your wife.

Regardless of whether you get to name it, you have a very pretty picture. If its the BEST picture of the critter, you can be credited as the photographer in the critter book. Do scientists have critter books?

Regardless of whether you get to name it, you have a very pretty picture. If its the BEST picture of the critter, you can be credited as the photographer in the critter book. Do scientists have critter books?

Do we have them on our shelves? Many do; I have a whole bookcase of them. Or did you mean write critter books? Some do. Some are snooty about "popular" books (silly scientists).

These are common enough in our waters around the Andaman Sea and Burma. Great critters and I love the pattern, but they are very jumpy.

the genus Saron needs a complete revision

the S. marmoratus and S. neglectus complexes both need redefinitions

VERY UNFORTUNATELY, specimens are not collected, only photographed

that's why it will probably take another 10 years or so to describe these guys (probably >7 species)

I have "working names" for the two Saron species shown here, but no specimens ..

Art