Using the Light & Motion Stingray HD with Sony HDR-CX7 & HDR-SR12...

I have used both the CX7 and SR12 on 2 consecutive dive trips both inside my new L&M Stingray HD.

The Stingray HD is a great housing for these types of cameras. Even though I have had some recent problems with L&M I really do think their housings are tough to beat for quality and function. This housing moves so smoothly through the water, it's perfectly balanced with the needed weight kit, which should be included as the housing is miserably buoyant without it. I have 2 UK Light Cannon 100's on ULCS, the whole package is a great combination.

The first trip to Providenciales in April I took a Sony CX7. The CX7 was pretty disappointing for video quality, and I was not having a great time with the Stingray HD either. The Monitor Back would barely make it through 1.5 dives on fresh Duracells, and I occasionally could not see much more than shadows of my subjects through the Monitor Back as it was way too bright and overexposed. After a conversation with Paul Barnett of L&M, who does a great job of advising me through these situations via Email, I learned that rechargeable NiMH batteries are the way to go for the Monitor Back. As for the rest of it, I was the first L&M customer using this new housing and camera setup.

For the next trip to Cozumel in May I had some 2900mA NiMH batteries, the OEM Stingray HD weight kit instead of my 2 one pound weights zip tied to the housing, and the Sony SR12. The 2900mA batteries totally fixed the Monitor Back going dead and rendering the whole system useless problem, and the SR12 eliminated all the brightness and overexposed display issues on the Monitor Back. Everything was falling into place and I was impressed with the video quality. Then on one dive I switched from video to photo mode and everything went to hell. The camera kept trying to take photos, and endlessly simulated recording photos to the Memory Stick, while actually continuing to shoot video, then locked up completely in video mode and was totally unresponsive to any combination of attempts to turn the system off via the housing controls. I had to open the housing and manually turn the camera off later. I immediately sent this information the Paul, who got to work on it. I also ran the camera through dry tests in and out of the housing to recreate this issue. Basically the camera does not like going from video to photo mode while recording video, or even in standby while using housing controls. This is not an issue when outside of the housing if you toggle from video to photo, but if you hit the photo button while shooting video the camera takes issue and will lock up. Apparently the signal the housing gives is to the direct photo button, not the toggle to photo mode which switches into dedicated photo mode as opposed to snapping a photo while in video mode. Anyway, this is not really the fault of L&M, more Sony's design flaw. However, the end result is a "use at your own risk" photo mode. After testing this underwater several more time and getting locked up trying to take photos, I decided that this camera was going to be a dedicated video camera, and that's that.

Fortunately I am very pleased with the video quality and like the whole system.

The best part of the SR12 is that every couple days I would take some time to edit and cut down my video. This worked so awesome! All totally within the camera UI I was able to take clips and cut both ends to end up with the perfect, finished product ready to import right into my software timeline. I repeated this clip after clip taking 5 minutes down to 15 seconds etc, deleting some clips altogether, sometimes splitting and cutting as many as 20 times on the longer night dives where I pretty much left the camera running. It was amazing, what took hours of importing into the computer and tons of time editing was all done before I even left Cozumel, and the best part was I backed my finished clips up throughout my dive trip to a Memory Stick card directly from within the 120GB SR12, and when I got home I stuck that Memory Stick card into my Mac and in no time was ready to arrange and add music.

The SR12 may not be perfect, but I have seen the light and am never going back to tape.

Todd,

Thanks for posting your findings todate on the SR12 and Stingray housing It looks like I'm one of the many people who are still trying to decide between - AVCHD (Sony SR12) versus HDV (Sony HC9).

Would be interested to hear your views (and anyones elses for that matter, who has direct experience of both AVCHD and HVD formats) on quality of the image between the two formats, especially the quality of trailing images between the SR12 and HC9.

Is there any noticeable difference between the SR12 and HC9 two when shooting a busy reef scene or fast moving objects _ i read that trailing image was still an issue for the AVCHD SR12 versus HVD or is this a non issue ?

Thanks Jon

Hi Jon, I don't know about trailing images on either camera, but can say that I am happy with the results I am getting with the SR12. Personally after enjoying the benefits of the AVCHD I would not look at a tape based system again. I have 2 high quality videos up now on my website from recent Cozumel trips using the SR12, if that helps you look for quality.

Hi Todd

Thanks for your info on the SR-12. I am moving from still to video and have been watching the forums for some first hand reviews. Like many others I am trying to decide between the HC-9 and SR-12. After watching your footage with the SR-12 I am really leaning that way. Although I am very dissapointed in the problems you encountered with the still photo function. Just curious but if you switched the camera off and then switched modes would it still lock up on you? Also did you have any lighting on your Cozumel video, if so what are you using? Does anyone else have any hands on time with the SR-12 and L&M housing yet? thanks for the info

Hi, Since the SR-12 always starts in video mode when inside the Stingray housing it is necessary to switch into photo mode regardless, that's when the camera/housing becomes unreliable and locks up. I have committed to using the housing for video only now. Honestly, the photos from the SR-12 were not that great anyway. The May Cozumel video was shot with one UK Light Cannon 100 + 2 video filters, the July Cozumel Video was shot with 2 UK Light Cannon 100's + 2 video filters in each, these light are great. I have the L&M Stingray wide angle lens, but have not found the right opportunity for it yet, so all video is show with the standard lens. Overall, I am happy with the results I am getting with the SR-12, and love the in camera hard-drive editing/cutting I can do prior to brining video into the computer.

wow thanks for this post.

I am now deciding to get a SR11 or HC9

the shop guys says HC9 and so did everyone else.. ur insight to SR12 is something different.

u edit in iMovie?

so u need wuights on the Stingray if not it is too buoyant?

I was looking at the Bluefin or Gates housing

Hi Meimei, sorry for the delayed response, just got back from Cozumel yesterday.

My personal opinion is the SR11 or SR12 is the future of camcorders so why not take advantage of it now. The actual quality difference between the SR11/12 and HC9's lower compression is negligible, I have used both. However, you gain the huge benefit of recording on a hard drive and being able to do in camera editing and backup to Memory Stick with the SR11/12. I cannot stress the benefit of this enough. I have my desired clips all cut to size and backed up prior returning home, saves hours. You are not comparing a pro camera to the SR11/12, if so MiniDV might be a better choice as pro/semi-pro hard drive cameras are computer processor hungry.

I usually edit in iMovie HD, but sometimes in Final Cut Express.

The weight kit for the L&M Stingray housing is necessary. The Stingray housing does not offer much camera control as the L&M Bluefin & Gates housings do, but for what I do the Stingray works great. If I ever decide to get a pro camera, then I would expect to have more control over white balance etc. I am satisfied with the SR12 and Stingray package, but know that it's a huge step down from a FX1. However, I can fit my Stingray housing, SR12, 2 Light Cannon 100's with batteries, one regulator complete, all my power adapters & cables, a Manta Jr. reel & float, and more in my approved carryon. Whereas, the FX1, housing and lights alone would put me over my 50 pound checked bag allowance. This would leave no room for a bottle or two of quality Tequila.

Todd,

I know nothing of the SR12 but just came back from filming the great whites at Guadelupe where a friend had bought that cam for his wife. He was using a Mac Pro laptop and Final Cut Pro but was unfamiliar with anything in FCP. The only cable he had with him was a cam firewire cable of some sort to USB which went into his laptop. I didn't think that would work as USB is so slow. Was he using the correct cable for the 12? Then I showed him how to go to the Log and Transfer window, but it seemed as if he could only queue up whole clips. His in and out point controls were grayed out. Once a clip was added to the queue, the spinning wheel of death came on. A force quit showed me that FC was unresponding.

If you know, could you provide a step by step workflow for ingesting his footage so that I can share this with him. I would very much appreciate it.

Steve

Hi Steve. I get lost in Final Cut which keeps me using iMovie HD. Hopefully my work flow can aid you?

1- After doing some in camera cutting and editing I back up my clips on an 8 GB Memory Stick, there are 16GB available now.

2- I open iMovie 08 & insert the Memory Stick into a card reader, the AVCHD clips automatically load and I save the movie, no editing, this is just a go between program.

3- I open iMovie HD and create a new movie as iMovie 08 is the worst thing Apple ever created.

4- Find the .mov clips in the iMovie Events folder created by iMovie 08 and copy them into the new iMovie HD movie, edit the movie and I am done.

****You Need iMovie 08 to initially import the AVCHD video. iMovie HD cannot process them.******

I use a Macbook Pro 17" with a 26" external HD display, and a 1 TB external hard drive for scratch and saving these very large files which would eat up all the space in the laptop with just a few movies. One day I will take the time to master Final Cut, maybe.

Apple realized their huge mistake with iMovie 08, so they allow a free download of iMovie HD to qualified iMovie 08 owners from their website.

Maybe someone here can chime in to better answer you Final Cut Pro question?

Thanks Todd, what cable are you using to ingest into iMovie, its not that usb cable my friend had with the cam, is it?

Does anyone have a Final Cut flow for the SR-12?

Steve

I never have used a cable successfully with AVCHD. I move the clips over to the Memory Stick card within the camera and only use the Memory Stick card in the computer, it works flawlessly. When I first got the HDR-SR12 I had issues with the cable so I never used it again.

s.

Basically the camera does not like going from video to photo mode while recording video, or even in standby while using housing controls.

Im using the HC9 and the photo button sends code 18-2B to the camera and there is never been a problem with hc9 taking a photo while in video-rec or video-pause mode. (worked every time) Are we looking at a camera difference or a housing differece. (or some combo)