Moisture alarm in HDR-HC1 cameras

Oh Darn;

I am n Micronesia (Yap) with TWO HC1 Sony cameras

humidity is 90% there-a-bouts and I have continual problems

with the moisture control alarm, thus shutting down the cameras.

Today I am out of the water due to non-operation on both

(one was stored overnight in a zip lock with dessicant).

Admittedly, I have been shooting them much this year, but never have had such

a problem. I tried bagging them(like I said) in a zip-lock with desicant, overnight, and keep the AC on

in the room, but not more than 3 degrees cooler than outside, still problems.

It usually takes about 4+ hours to clear with the cassette door open. Once it is ok, it goes straight away into the housing

air tight with dessicant.

There is a hair drier here, but I am reluctant to take that step towards abnormality and

maybe further complicate things.

Any thoughts? Solutions?

Much appreciated.

Bill Macdonald

Bill

In all probability, both your sensors have failed and there's something wrong with the assembly.

However, since I've been told to be more positive about life in general, I'll pretend that isn't the case and give you advice.

You should try to put it in the housing immediately once it's out of the bag and seal it in the a/c room. Assuming you have an Al housing, just put some dessicant in the housing as well for good measure.

The easiest way is to leave the camera out and the housing open. There shouldn't be that big a temperature change where the sensors will go off. Obviously the longevity of the equipment will be severely compromised.

If it is the sensor and I assume it's out of warranty, it'll cost about $400 to fix.. each... but it's not right?

Bill

In all probability, both your sensors have failed and there's something wrong with the assembly.

However, since I've been told to be more positive about life in general, I'll pretend that isn't the case and give you advice.

 

You should try to put it in the housing immediately once it's out of the bag and seal it in the a/c room. Assuming you have an Al housing, just put some dessicant in the housing as well for good measure.

 

The easiest way is to leave the camera out and the housing open. There shouldn't be that big a temperature change where the sensors will go off. Obviously the longevity of the equipment will be severely compromised.

 

If it is the sensor and I assume it's out of warranty, it'll cost about $400 to fix.. each... but it's not right?

Drew;

Thanks for the input. What you say about the failed sensors is probably true, but they have worked. One of my cameras also has an "eject cassette"

message every 3-4 minutes which rules out U/w housing use, so it's now a dedicated topside grab cam (I left my FX-1 at home). So far, in 12 days

today is the only down day and the here-in posts keep the frustration down. When the "less screwed up one" works, I u/w house it immediately, and that has worked. This is my 4th expedition in a row this year, without time in-between for repair. The problem became acute on this trip during the rainy season, with humidity steady at 90% or so, it rains every day, most of the day. But here in Yap we dive the incoming high tode with vis between

60 and 200 ft (yes, there is such a thing!). Great stuff for sharks and mantas!!! Of coarse the worst part is hearing how "great it was" from the returning divers. Darn!!

Thanks again Drew.

Bill Macdonald

Drew;

 

Thanks for the input. What you say about the failed sensors is probably true, but they have worked. One of my cameras also has an "eject cassette"

message every 3-4 minutes which rules out U/w housing use, so it's now a dedicated topside grab cam (I left my FX-1 at home). So far, in 12 days

today is the only down day and the here-in posts keep the frustration down. When the "less screwed up one" works, I u/w house it immediately, and that has worked. This is my 4th expedition in a row this year, without time in-between for repair. The problem became acute on this trip during the rainy season, with humidity steady at 90% or so, it rains every day, most of the day. But here in Yap we dive the incoming high tode with vis between

60 and 200 ft (yes, there is such a thing!). Great stuff for sharks and mantas!!! Of coarse the worst part is hearing how "great it was" from the returning divers. Darn!!

Thanks again Drew.

 

Bill Macdonald

Bill,

I'm not trying to overstate anything since I don't know you. My apologies if I state the obvious to you.

Condensation , which sets off the alarm, is caused when warm air (which can hold a lot of moisture) comes in contact with a cold surface and the air around it which cannot hold a lot of moisture (actually water vapor will begin condensing as soon as its temperature drops below the dew point). If you feel clammy in the room with the AC, then it is most likely not removing the moisture from the air. This presents a real dilemma since even leaving the housing open in the room will trap moisture in the housing. If the dew point is high enough, then you will have the moisture issue with the cameras. If the room is dry, then leaving both the housing and camera open in the room and closing it up before you exit the room should address the issue. Be sure to return to the room before opening the case.

If the room is clammy, then do this. Grab a scuba tank and bring it to the room. After the camera is charged, new tape inserted, and in the housing. Place a known good desiccant in the housing. Then gently blow nice dry air into the housing for a good twenty seconds and close it up as quickly as possible. Sometimes this takes two people. If that doesn't fix your problem, it is probably a sensor. Good luck.

Mark

Bill

Have you tried resetting the camera to default? That might snap it back into shape.

Since as Mark says, this is a temperature issue. Reset the camerea then keep your camera in a bag with dessicant OUTSIDE along with your housing.

Unless your dessicant is saturated and everyone else with a video camera is also suffering from problems, the common problem of Sony camcorder is the moisture sensor going nuts.

Reset the camerea then keep your camera in a bag with dessicant OUTSIDE along with your housing.

Unless your dessicant is saturated and everyone else with a video camera is also suffering from problems, the common problem of Sony camcorder is the moisture sensor going nuts.

I have a great deal of respect for Drew and his sage advice. However, Drew and I are in disagreement here on the virtues of leaving the camera outside. Here is my reasoning.

If the camera reaches an air temperature of (x) and the dewpoint is also near (x); since you say it has been raining I will assume the air is as saturated as it can be. You face two problems. Moving the camera out of the bag and into the housing outside will put the camera in the housing with an atmospheric dewpoint of (x). Although the camera will be nice and dry from the desiccant, the air in the housing will not be. Once the camera is submerged, the camera housing begins to cool and lowers the dewpoint within the housing. This causes the moisture to condensate and you are back to square one. This is why I recommend doing all this in the cabin and closing the housing up where the dewpoint should be lower and the scuba air flush to get as dry of air as possible in the housing. This will also help negate issues if your desiccant is saturated.

Now if the dewpoint is low where you are and not near (x), then what Drew recommends will work. His suggestion, however, may not have taken into account the high dewpoint I believe you are experiencing with the constant rains. If you want to do it the outside way then at least blow tank air in the housing as someone closes it so you can get the dewpoint in the housing low enough so that the cooling of the water won't cause condensation. As drew had mentioned, the salt air isn't so good for ye ol camera so I try to avoid it.

Although under the right circumstances; both methods can work, I believe that you are going to need the scuba air to lower the dewpoint (moisture level) in the housing to be certain it isnt a sensor or that your moisture munchers aren't saturated. Good luck and I feel your pain.

Mark

Bill

Have you tried resetting the camera to default? That might snap it back into shape.

Since as Mark says, this is a temperature issue. Reset the camerea then keep your camera in a bag with dessicant OUTSIDE along with your housing.

Unless your dessicant is saturated and everyone else with a video camera is also suffering from problems, the common problem of Sony camcorder is the moisture sensor going nuts.

HMMM default??? In the menu? I do not recall that one.

Currently it is in housing and now working (whew!)

Today I missed nothing according to the divers returning.

So bullet dodged for now.

Room is dry, and I will stay on top of this.

Thanks again.

BMac

www.youtube.com/007bmac

Mark, we are not in disagreement. When I say leave the housing outside, I meant with the camera and the dessicant inside. The other topside camera should stay in the bag.

Still, I seriously doubt the conditions in Yap have the elements that raises dewpoint to 80+°F. The water temp is around 80-81° and the air temp around 77-81 in the shade daytime due to the rain (I'm remembering the conditions from when I was there)? The dewpoint should be no more than 74-75°F. Furthermore the dessicant should reduce the RH in the housing by at least a few points, lowering the chances of condensation. Plus the heat from the camera operating will probably cause the lens to fog first, which Bill hasn't complained about.

If the reset doesn't help, then the cameras have bad moisture sensors who are breaking down intermittently. Some people believe removing the batteries (including the little one that remembers settings etc) and letting it sit for an hour does wonders for Sony gremlins.

A moisture sensor gone bad is a known issue with the HC1. It happened to mine, was replaced by an independent shop in San Diego, and cost around $200 to repair. That's no comfort to Bill in Yap, but the problem is in the camera, not the temperature or humidity.

Thanks Eric. I've never had one happen to me but hear stories about them from A-Z 1 camcorders. That's why Sony has a crappy warranty 1 year warranty. They want you to buy a new one every year.

Well that stinks about the alarm but let's hope for the best, do a dance, and sacrifice a lens cover to the sand less the Camera Gods frown upon us next time we are in an exotic location. This all brings back horrible memories of traveling to Chuuk and arriving with two dead cameras that worked great the day before departing the US. But I digress... good luck

Bill sorry I didn't see your question. The reset button should be accessible with a paperclip. You'll have to read the manual to find out where it is.

A moisture sensor gone bad is a known issue with the HC1. It happened to mine, was replaced by an independent shop in San Diego, and cost around $200 to repair. That's no comfort to Bill in Yap, but the problem is in the camera, not the temperature or humidity.

Eric;

It has to be the camera problem as you said. It's like walking on eggs with this.

I have given these cameras the "industrial" treatment this year with well over

100 hours, and they operated in way worse humidity conditions than this. So

it looks ok today (in the housing). We have another week to take advantage of these flat

conditions here in Yap. So far so good despite the problems. Mantas confidential (up close)

and shark city. Fun stuff!!

$ 200 vs $ 400 ( I may bring my cameras to SD prior to SDUFEX!!)

BTW: Bill Acker and I talked about some shots we need when you are here. Easy stuff.

Cheers

Bill

Bill,

I'll point you to the repair shop that fixed my HC1 when you're here for UFEX. This year's show is shaping up as the best ever. We had 60 entries; all but 5 of the 32 chosen are in high def. The bar gets raised every year.

Say hi to Bill and the crew for me. I'm looking forward to my stay there in September. Just tell him to keep the wifi up so I can celebrate when the Cubs clinch. (He will know what I mean.)

At the same time I'm bummed thinking about you there with two dead camcorders. Hopefully you'll be able to borrow something and shoot the last week.

Regards,

Eric

www.ehanauer.com

Like Eric, I also had the same problem with the sensor in my A1-U. Fortunately, I had the extended warranty and I noticed the problem before I had to go on a trip somewhere. However, if all is working well, I have found that placing it in a zip lock bag for 10 minutes if it had been in an ac room, always did the trick and thus, never had this issue when on the road.

Steve

Bill,

 

I'll point you to the repair shop that fixed my HC1 when you're here for UFEX. This year's show is shaping up as the best ever. We had 60 entries; all but 5 of the 32 chosen are in high def. The bar gets raised every year.

 

Say hi to Bill and the crew for me. I'm looking forward to my stay there in September. Just tell him to keep the wifi up so I can celebrate when the Cubs clinch. (He will know what I mean.)

 

At the same time I'm bummed thinking about you there with two dead camcorders. Hopefully you'll be able to borrow something and shoot the last week.

 

Regards,

Eric

www.ehanauer.com

Eric;

Thanks for the thoughts.

Yesterday was great, 3 dives w/o problems and great

opportunities for mantas and sharks. I shot a full reel w/o mishap.

Camera acted up a bit during the night (moisture alarm) but settled down and in housing.

Working.

Today is flat & glassy with no horizon perfect summer conditions. Ocean like a mirror without a ripple.

Picture prefect. Vessels going south to Yap caverns and Magic Kingdom. Bill Acker thinks

you are the rare San Diego diver who truly understands what Yap has to offer as a destination.

Susan and I will most likely head to S.D. ahead of traffic Friday for SDUDFEX and drop off the cameras for service

so if you can email me the repair facility info I will drop them, then head over to Gates, then SDUFEX. Thanks.

bill@macdonaldproductions.com

We had a blast last year, and enjoyed the format of short films, and the ambience as well.

More Yap: Internet working fine in rooms, but only at 56 speed (dial-up) the minimum. The feed comes in by satellite

and it is shard - expensive, and boosting the signal would be very costly. But that's not a problem for

tracking sports. Good luck with the Cubs. (I met Earnie Banks once at the Seal Beach cable station.

He was a nice man.)

Bill

It is not advisable to put your email address due to spam fishing programs. Use PMs or profile email option for extra safety.

Good luck with your cameras.

Bill

It is not advisable to put your email address due to spam fishing programs. Use PMs or profile email option for extra safety.

Good luck with your cameras.

Drew;

Thanks for the heads up. I am getting my bearings on Wetpixel,

and I truly enjoy the content, more-so when I return to CA and

can use a high speed connection.

Luck with cameras is holding, by a flimsy thread I'm afraid.

Great support suggestions so far. I found and pushed the reset button and it seems to

focus on the camera clock setting. Both HC-1 to be serviced before end of August.

Again, thank you.

Bill

Bill,

 

I'll point you to the repair shop that fixed my HC1 when you're here for UFEX. This year's show is shaping up as the best ever. We had 60 entries; all but 5 of the 32 chosen are in high def. The bar gets raised every year.

 

Say hi to Bill and the crew for me. I'm looking forward to my stay there in September. Just tell him to keep the wifi up so I can celebrate when the Cubs clinch. (He will know what I mean.)

 

At the same time I'm bummed thinking about you there with two dead camcorders. Hopefully you'll be able to borrow something and shoot the last week.

 

Regards,

Eric

www.ehanauer.com

Eric

Well I just completed the final photo-dive here in Yap and I am happy to report that by keeping the

camera inside the housing was the best approach, and I never had a shutdown during dive time.

Since it would take 3-4 hours to clear the alarm problem when I had to swap-out cassettes and charge the battery,

I became way more selective in my shooting (like the 16 mm days) and used the topside unit to charge the battery. So after a

day of diving I would still have enough tape for day two, so I just swapped the battery. Worked perfectly.

This trip reinforced what Bill Acker and Larry Smith had emphasized about summer diving in Yap, best conditions for diving

around the island. Take your pick of sites. So I am returning with better material than the previous trips here, since we had so

many opportunities.

Thanks to the support from "Wetpixelites" I never lost heart. Nice to have a support and research entity to call upon.

I have learned way more about this site and it is great to have such a resource.

Just thought I would put the HC-1 alarm issue to closure, all is well in production land. See you in San Diego for the SDUFEX show.

Bill Macdonald

www.youtube.com/007bmac

www.macdonaldproductions.com

www.macdonalddesign.com