Indo vs PNG ??

Hi Everyone,

Please bear with me a moment. I've been to Lembeh, Bunaken and Bangka both land based and liveaboard. It was terrific and fun. Now, I'm very interested in going to Papua New Guinea. There's the options of land based and liveaboard there and depending upon the time of year and operator it looks like a choice of 4 to 5 really good locations from south to north. Its really tough to choose. While I like macro critters, I also very much like the bigger stuff (elusive as it is) too and beautiful corals. I love diving, the more health and varied, the better!

It seems the focus here on wetpixel the last few years has weighed in heavily toward Indonesia with a subtle shift recently from Bali to Lembeh, and now to Raja Ampat as these places become more accessible. But while others regard PNG as wonderful, can a reason be pinpointed that PNG has kind of lost its "curb appeal"? I'm not saying people are not going there, its just that Indo has dominated the last few years with the photo showcases, reviews, talk, etc, etc. I deem its likely cost and access that has given the edge to this shift, is this the real case? Indo just tends to offer so much value for the money, is that it?

With work, I can only get away with a two week trip for time, and I'm not ruling out any destination, I find things I love for all the travels I've done. But is Indo itself, especially the further "east", simply becoming more superior to PNG in its diving, fish and coral life, or is it more of a value and accessibility (flights, etc) that is outweighing what used to be such a pinnacle diving destination in PNG? I met David Doublet at a seminar a couple of years ago who said that PNG offered the most diversity of anywhere in the world, was that just simply, yes, "a couple of years ago" ?

If given the ability and choice, I'd very much prefer to put some focus toward a trip with the cultural experience of PNG, sites (and sights) that offer both good macro and pelagic encounters, and amazing corals over a two week period. (Yes, I've been around the block and understand nothing is guaranteed.) Less money and impatience in getting there are not high on the list and never climb very high if the destination really rewards. Can anyone lean me toward where I should be focused?

I hope this makes sense, thanks for the patience and help.

paquito

I think there are two issues with PNG. One is that the general quality of the liveaboards and the resorts is a bit higher in Indonesia, the food is a bit better and the amenities are a bit nicer. Also, the PNG liveaboard situation is not quite stabilized; we are still not sure if spirit of NG is actually running or you will get stuck at Tawali. That being said, we have had two great trips to PNG, one to Kimbe with the old Mike Ball boat (not there anymore) and one on the Febrina with Alan Raabe to the south coast of New Brittain. Great trip, great mix of stuff, nothing large though. For large stuff I think that Kavieng is the place more or less. The Peter Hughes boat is supposedly quite nice and if you can get on a trip where Alan is driving you will have a good time.

Cheers

Bill

I've been looking at Kavieng for two years now but being based in Asia the cost is simply too much. I get much better value in Indonesia.

If however you live in Oz I hear the deals from Brisbane are really good to PNG in general.

Thanks guys,

My preference in the south was to be on the Golden Dawn for an Eastern Field trip or aboard the Chertan if Mr. van der Loos was skipper in the south and hopefully on a trip that explored more out beyond just Milne Bay - the Spirit looks good, but I'd prefer to know it was going to run.

For the North, I considered the Febrina if Mr. Raabe was going to be aboard, or the Peter Hughes boat. Neither of which goes to Kavieng.

I'm not completely stuck on trying to see big stuff, there's Cocos, Galapagos and other places for that to be enjoyed, it would just be nice to make the journey and get a larger variety of big and small with how many different seas are combining in and around the PNG area.

Bill, you've been there a couple of times, are you more than satisfied with Indonesia now or is there something that really stands out in PNG that you are simply not finding in Indo?

Unfortuantely PIG004, alas I'm not from Oz, so yes, the long travel and expense will assuredly be there for me regardless.

Guys, I appreciate the feedback and patience for such a strange question, paquito

FWIW: I've made one trip to PNG in 2004, several to Indo and Malaysia, but I have not been to RE. I was on the GD on a trip from Wewak to Madang. My recollection is that the reefs were more pristine with more impressive hard corals than I've seen in Indonesia. Wrecks were really quite amazing, and I'm no lover of wreck diving. Macro life was very good but nothing like Lembeh--which seems to me unique. The trip also had a different vibe. PNG feels far more remote than the places I've been in Indo. On the other hand, the cost is high. Flights to Australia are bad enough but Air New Guinea really sticks it to you. Once there, I think the cost of boats and resorts is comparable to the more expensive Indo options, but there are no real budget or even moderate options. That said, there's something about PNG that calls to me, and I'm going back this summer, a week in Walindi and 10 days on the Stardancer. Couldn't get things sqared away with GD. If I could travel in my winter, I would jump at a chance to do one of the Eastern Fields trips.

P.S. I'd also rate the diving superior to the Solomons.

Don't know your timeframe but just received an email that Peter Hughes is offering a $ 500 discount off Star Dancer trips.

http://www.peterhughes.com/rates_specials....2009_stardancer

Don't know your timeframe but just received an email that Peter Hughes is offering a $ 500 discount off Star Dancer trips.

 

http://www.peterhughes.com/rates_specials....2009_stardancer

Hi Reuben,

Thanks for your help. I saw the PH special but its valid for 2009 only, and unfortunately not in my timeline. I appreciate you pointing it out for my benefit though, thanks!

In doing my research, unfortunately many of the land based and liveaboards operators that used to service PNG divers are gone. For example, that's half the list of operators in the Lonely Planet book, its not an easy place to keep up business. I've narrowed my quest to either the tawali group of products to the south, or Peter Hghes or the Febrina to the north.

It looks like anything out of Kavieng will have to be land-based as none of the northern liveaboards have Kavieng on their current schedules. And the only operators I can find that look worth the effort to get to is the Lissenung Island Resort. Everything else is a hit or miss option and some are catering more to surfing than diving? If anyone else knows better for Kavieng, please let me know.

Your list of expereince there sounds as though you've made it to some very nice and interesting places as well, it keeps me envious and anxious to see PNG myself. Now, if people wouldn't mention the Banda Sea and RE (RA, R4, IJ, whichever is proper)... life wouldn't be so hard.

Thanks again!

paquito

Hi Reuben,

Thanks for your help. I saw the PH special but its valid for 2009 only, and unfortunately not in my timeline. I appreciate you pointing it out for my benefit though, thanks!

In doing my research, unfortunately many of the land based and liveaboards operators that used to service PNG divers are gone. For example, that's half the list of operators in the Lonely Planet book, its not an easy place to keep up business. I've narrowed my quest to either the tawali group of products to the south, or Peter Hghes or the Febrina to the north.

 

It looks like anything out of Kavieng will have to be land-based as none of the northern liveaboards have Kavieng on their current schedules. And the only operators I can find that look worth the effort to get to is the Lissenung Island Resort. Everything else is a hit or miss option and some are catering more to surfing than diving? If anyone else knows better for Kavieng, please let me know.

 

Your list of expereince there sounds as though you've made it to some very nice and interesting places as well, it keeps me envious and anxious to see PNG myself. Now, if people wouldn't mention the Banda Sea and RE (RA, R4, IJ, whichever is proper)... life wouldn't be so hard.

 

Thanks again!

 

paquito

Golden Dawn used to travel to Kavieng. GD's schedule seems a bit uncertain lately but it would be worth an email. It's the best boat I've ever been on.

Paquito

Besides Lissenung, you can dive with Dorian and Cara at Scuba Ventures. They know a lot of the WWII wrecks. Accomodations is either the Mala~~~~ (sorry can't remember the name) or the Nusa (something something) lodge. Mala ~~ is on the main island and I sort preferred it to Nusa blah blah because of that.

Off Port Moresby, there are some pretty good sites too. I prefer staying in Port Moresby vs at Loloata, but that's my preference. John at the Dive Center Port Moresby does have a great operation IF you specify for the local guide whose name escapes me yet again. Loloata crew knows the critter sites better.

I spend a lot of time in PNG, heck, I just got back last week after a month diving the south shore of New Britain Island. I have dived New Ireland (Kavieng) and I believe that the best big fish diving is the Fathers, Kimbe and Witu trip. Lots of sharks at Killibobs, schools of cudas all over, HUGE schools of trevally. Kavieng doesn't have as much big action, in my experience. The reefs are extremely good there too.

Definitely go liveaboard. The distances to these areas are done on one trip, but it takes a lot of driving. Alan Raabe of the FeBrina knows the best spots. He put most of those moorings down. He has been running those waters the most of any captain. If you go landbased, you are relegated to closer reefs.

This trip is usually offered spring/summer due to the prevailing winds. You can't go wrong with that trip. It is one I repeat, and I don't repeat trips often.

While I like Indonesia, and money seems to go a bit further, I think the diving is better in PNG. Just MHO. BTW, I liked PNG better than Raja, too. I am a muck diver too, and Lembeh may be a repeat trip, sometime.

Hi Drew, thanks. It’s the Malagan Resort I think you are talking about?

There’s also the Malagan Diving located on the grounds of the Malign Lodge – but I cannot find any information on the Malign Lodge if they are still there? It looks as though they might be the now-named Malagan Resort? And looking at the Malagan Resort, they suggest Niugini Dive Adventures for scuba diving – so Malagan Diving must no longer be. Its definitely a slight card shuffle of confusion.

Nusa Island Retreat was the other. I don’t think I’ll have time to be as flexible as I want for the options many additional flights, etc. From what I’m finding, I think its best I concentrate on a liveaboard, with a land-based tie-in that conveniently meets up with it.

Reuben, message sent to the GD, can’t hurt, good idea.

Thanks Allison, can’t wait to go to half the places you’ve been. From what I’ve read, I also like Mr. Raabe’s attitude on things, it makes a difference on getting in better diving, flexibility, and enjoyment aboard. While each person has their reasons for their likes and dislikes, I appreciate your opinion on the PNG vs Indo debate, it helps.

Thanks again everyone!

Paquito - I have been to PNG on about 7-8 occasions and If you want to go I would do a part at a resort and part on a liveaboard so that you can combine the land based things you want to do with the diving.

I believe that Tawali is the best resort in PNG. The diving from the resort is outstanding and the guides are excellent. Having said that I am a macro muck nut. Still there was plenty of reef diving and they will do whatever you want if you tell them.

If Rob Van der Loose has the new boat ready then he takes it out of Tawali so its easy.

I have dived Kavieng on 3 occasions and although I enjoyed it with its strong currents for drift dives and large schools of fish (My dive buddy on one drift dive had a sailfish cruise past him about 2 metres away), I prefer Milne Bay. The variety of UW life and the interaction with villages is better I think.

Having said this a remote trip on the Febrina is, I am told by a mate of mine who won a trip with him unbelieveable. This was due to Alan's knowledge of the reefs and he is also a good fun laid back guy to be with.

Allison seems to have the area nailed and I would be taking her advise.

There is a cheaper flight now to PNG from Brisbane with Virgin it is about $A800 ($520 US) v $A1100 with PNG Air.

There is a cheaper flight now to PNG from Brisbane with Virgin it is about $A800 ($520 US) v $A1100 with PNG Air.

Currently showing rountrips for $ 354 AUD which is a tremendous bargain over Air Nugini. Wish I'd know about this two months ago.

Hate to mess up the works - but since this message has gone on for awhile (and resulted in a lot of good info) can I add the Solomons into the mix? How do the Solomons compare to PNG and RA? Funny - but the Solomon are easier to get to (via Fiji) but just as expensive.

Hate to mess up the works - but since this message has gone on for awhile (and resulted in a lot of good info) can I add the Solomons into the mix? How do the Solomons compare to PNG and RA? Funny - but the Solomon are easier to get to (via Fiji) but just as expensive.

I have not been to PNG (in the planning stages now) yet, but I have been to RA and the Solomon's. My personal choice is the Solomons.

Hate to mess up the works - but since this message has gone on for awhile (and resulted in a lot of good info) can I add the Solomons into the mix? How do the Solomons compare to PNG and RA? Funny - but the Solomon are easier to get to (via Fiji) but just as expensive.

I've been to Solomons once, on the Bilikiki. Solomons is known for huge schools of big fish, and Mary's Island had big schools of jack, but elsewhere not so much. (I was told that there had been some unusual currents/weather patterns and this perhaps caused an absence of the usual schools.) Sharks were not plentiful. There was some very good macro at certain sites. White Beach stands out in my memory. There are also beautiful passages carved in reefs and islands that would make great wide angle shots. Solomons has some very good diving, but I think PNG is better. Reefs are more impressive with more soft coral. I think PNG has better diversity. When I was last there, PNG had more sharks but that may not be true anymore.

Incidentally, Virgin is also flying from Brisbane to Honiara and there's a huge airfare war on flights from the west coast to Australia with Virgin Australia providing new competition and Delta about to enter the market as well. On the other hand, if you fly via Fiji, you could stop over there and dive the Bligh Waters from the northern coast of Viti Levu.