Seaworthiness

Does anyone know of a resource that lists or compares coast guard type regulations for various countries. I've noticed on some trips that certain boats would probably not pass US Coast Guard regulations - for example no life rafts.

I think info like this would be valuable, particularly if we are contemplating taking wives and significant others on trips. (For better or worse )

US coast guard certifications are a bit of a joke .. that tour companies .. especially in the caribbean .. go and get cause they are cheap and give americans a false sense of security.

All it takes to get a coast guard certification is money.

That may be true; and it was not my intention to debate the merits of the U.S. Coastguard vs any other certification, but nevertheless my question still pertains to what the different standards and requirements might be in different countries in order to carry passengers, liveaboards etc.

For example, are lifeboats / liferafts a requirement say on a 12-16 passenger vessel in Indonesia for example. (Fill in country or other safety requirement of choice.)

Certifications of vessels are great, but nobody should take a sticker (whether it's the USCG or some other outfit) as evidence of a boat's seaworthiness. All the sticker means is that the boat passed muster sometime within the last year, probably on a date when the captain knew the vessel would be checked. Many boat owners only have the required equipment onboard at the time of certification. After that, they may not have them onboard (or operational) until their next certification a year later. (And that's in countries where there are standards and methods of enforcing them!) When I was a fisheries observer, I had to check for about 18 different things on every boat every time I sailed with someone—even if I'd been with them the day before—precisely because the captain might have loaned things like safety suits, rafts, life jackets, and so on, to someone who was having a USCG certification that day, or someone who'd already been busted for not having everything he was supposed to have when they got randomly boarded out at sea. And even if everything is in place, you can't assume each item is still operational or reliable. Check the dates of their last tests, have the captain tell you about raft deployment, EPIRB operation, fire extinguishers, life jackets, and so on. It's one thing to have the stuff strapped to the wheelhouse, and it's another to have stuff that works.

Divers and travelers should develop their own standards and ask the vessel ownership about safety equipment before booking the trip. If that's not doable, just ask to see the boat before you pay, or before you depart. If something isn't to your liking, find another boat that doesn't have a life raft that's 30 years old or an EPIRB that hasn't been tested since 1989.

I'm glad this topic has been raised. Too often, especially in warm latitudes, we just hop on boats without checking this stuff out at all.

For example, are lifeboats / liferafts a requirement say on a 12-16 passenger vessel in Indonesia for example. (Fill in country or other safety requirement of choice.)

Maybe lifevests, but if its a dive boat you have your own floatation don't you !!

If you go to the bahamas, the boat inspections are done by the port, they are so called US coast guard, but trust me when i tell you this does not mean the vessel is any safer than one without a certification. I wasn't dissing the US coastguard, i was saying a certificate a boat may have may not mean what it is meant to, it may just have been 'bought'

I'm just trying to find out if there is a resource somewhere for published standards for boat safety standards in different countries. This is something my wife asked me when we read about the tragedy in Thailand. I did not want to post anything in that thread, as I am not assuming anything about their safety standards, and it appears they did have life rafts. I take my wife and plan to take my kids on some future trips, so it's important for me to be a little more diligent than if I am going on a trip by myself.

Personally, I think on a liveaboard, some type of life raft (even the compact self deploying type) is probably something to look for, at least when I am taking my family along. On a recent trip on a modest size liveaboard I noticed the boat I was on did not have any such devices, even though the boat was in fact in great condition, and I had no concerns, and I would go again, but maybe think twice for my family.

Obviously I would also research how the boat is maintained etc as far as possible.

I'm just trying to find out if there is a resource somewhere for published standards for boat safety standards in different countries. This is something my wife asked me when we read about the tragedy in Thailand. I did not want to post anything in that thread, as I am not assuming anything about their safety standards, and it appears they did have life rafts. I take my wife and plan to take my kids on some future trips, so it's important for me to be a little more diligent than if I am going on a trip by myself.

Personally, I think on a liveaboard, some type of life raft (even the compact self deploying type) is probably something to look for, at least when I am taking my family along. On a recent trip on a modest size liveaboard I noticed the boat I was on did not have any such devices, even though the boat was in fact in great condition, and I had no concerns, and I would go again, but maybe think twice for my family.

Obviously I would also research how the boat is maintained etc as far as possible.

Then there is a boat I was on a while back that stored the oxygen cylinders lashed together with the tanks of outboard gasoline in the part of the boat where the crew goes to smoke cigarettes. Or, the other one that had the compressor intake situated on the covered dive deck, just above where the generators belched out their carbon monoxide laden exhaust fumes. Jeff is right. There are some marginally funded and unprofessionally operated live-aboards out there that have the potential to:

1. Take our deposits when they go out of business between the time we book the trip and scheduled sailing date.

2. Hurt us. Or worse.

There are some terrific live-aboards. And some that are pretty scary. It would be nice to know which is which.

Have any of you taken a water-taxi from Sorong to Kri?

There are some terrific live-aboards. And some that are pretty scary. It would be nice to know which is which.

I totally agree, emergency exits are always a concern of mine especially if I end up with a cabin on the lower deck. The newer boats in Egypt have the additional exit which is usually in one of the front lower deck cabins. These are ok as long as the person whos cabin it is doesnt lock the cabin door which would prevent you from accessing the emergency exit. You would, or probably wont be suprised to know that a lot of boats in service do not have a secondary escape route from the lower deck. One way down and one way up. Not good. The idea of a small life raft is great and would not be to much trouble to have fitted on to a liveaboard that carries 12+ passengers. As I have said before, I work in the Health and Safety field and anything that has the potential to save lives is great, providing of course that it is maintained, accessable, and someone is trained to use/operate. Health and Safety should be a concern to all of us, like Stephen I have seen oxygen stored in smoking areas which is absolutely mind baffling. Ive just come off a boat where there was no one trained to actually administer oxygen, even more mind baffling. It would be great if a list could be compiled by divers regarding safety features of boats that they have dived on.

Stew

As Giles mentions, having some type of certification and actually following it are two separate issues.

And then of course there's no regulating dumb ass things like Steve's observation of smoking next to a supercharged molotov cocktail. If you guys observe things like these, do you bring it to the captain's attention? Are issues like these reportable to authorities like the coast guard in various countries?

If you guys observe things like these, do you bring it to the captain's attention? Are issues like these reportable to authorities like the coast guard in various countries?

as you may have gathered from my time on wetpixel, i am not one to keep quiet when things piss me off , so in answer to your question i have spoken to many a captain regarding this and other safety issues and some of the time things change, but sadly most of the time they dont.

Stew