Photo Contests Winners Rights Grab?

Amigos,

I received an inquiry on a recent photo contest (Sport Diver's Olympus contest?) plus also read the entry details on the recently listed National Geographic contest. Both have language that essentially says for entering these contests you give up all rights in perpetuity in any form, Royalty free, edited into any art creative work, blah, blah, blah.

I also heard that prizes for top winners of another recent contest EXCEPT the Grand Prize winner was a whopping subscription to their magazine

Without stirring a hornet's nest of discussion I'd like to know if other's noticed, care, think it's OK because many do this as a hobby, etc.

I find it mildly distressing that an entity like National Geographic who will go to the ends of the earth to protect THEIR image rights sees no problem with grabbing anyone else's forever

The other publication where everyone has been congratulating the top placing photogs (Nature's Best) is where I heard the totally lame UNREASONABLE prizes for anything but the Grand Prize winner (congrats Matt.

Wetpixellite's thoughts?

dhaas

I am fairly new to this whole photo competition thing but here are my thoughts. I agree that signing over your rights to an image for perpetuity doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling. I read that detail also on the Nat Geo competition and based on that, declined to participate. But regarding the prizes...well, I don't enter competitions for the prizes. Don't get me wrong, it's GREAT to win a terrific prize and when I do, I am thrilled. But the recognition of my work by industry professionals is really what gets me going. The awards for competitions I have entered are usually spelled out in advance so if you don't place in the top positions (and frankly, who ever thinks they really will?) you know where you stand before you write the check. In regards to Nature's Best, hell, I'd give anything to say I had an image displayed in the Smithsonian, but that's just me.

What DOES steam me is when prizes are used in the promotion of the competition and then never awarded. Luckily that has never happened to me but obviously from posts by other Wetpixel members, it has happened in the past.

This has come up in the past here in the forums. As long as the contest is up front about how they are going to use their images (whether it is a "rights grab" or something more reasonable, like what we do in our contests -- rights for usage in announcing / presenting winners and for marketing future contests), it is ultimately your choice whether you want to submit or not. The fact that these contests get thousands or tens of thousands of entries, even when people give up rights, means that the people who run the contests are doing something RIGHT. There is demand for them, and even if you don't agree with their policies, a lot of other people simply don't care.

This is a different issue than whether the contest is up front about what you are giving up when you submit -- I do firmly believe that all terms should be very clear when you enter...

Point taken from both NCMermaid and Eric.......

As I stated, IF (and I think that's a BIG if even from experienced top shooters) people read the rules and choose to enter for the kudos or whatever that's fine. Many also don't care as Eric states.

I did ponder if the gobbligook legaleze wording even sinks in though as people rush to enter (????)

I would disagree with contest organizers who require such rules as doing something RIGHT. More like predators preying on unsuspecting artists IMHO. They know what they're doing.

I would liken it to the other threads discussing working for free, non-profit or other donations of images, etc. That subject had disagreements from shooters, too.

I have no problem with contests using images to promote next year's event or showcasing in print or on the web the winners so people can share their success with others.

It's just that 2 of the 3 contests brought to my attention had almost the same "total rights use" language and it took me by surprise!

To each his own....

dhaas

It's not always a case of being predators. While some contests are clearly an easy way to create a portfolio of images, some just dont realize what they ask photographers to give up, and if you tell them, they're as shocked by it as you are. Oftentimes they mean only to be able to use the images for promotion of the contest, but then the lawyer gets it, and things go downhill from there.

Just dont submit to contests that want you to give up full rights. Or ask them about it, so at least they hear this.

Just dont submit to contests that want you to give up full rights.

That is what I do, and why I don´t enter contests such as World in Focus ...

David,

Yes, Nature's Best awards the top prize and then subscriptions but, I was amazed to find out it was a trip for two on Lindblad so I really can't complain. We take the trip this fall and and looking forward to it. Also, having one of my images as part of the banners and magazine cover defininitely was an honour I will never forget. Highlight in my career. They also bought back one of the banners that hung in the Smithsonian Exhibit hall from the Smithsonian so that I could have it. The Smithsonian has the rest of them. Not sure I will ever have a prize that will ever top that.

That said, people should read and evaluate the competitions and ensure the results and prizes meet their expectations. I do not enter all of them. Heck, who could. I choose and probably enter only 4 or 5.

Cheers

Todd

As with many things in the media industry people will cut off their noses to spite their faces if they think they are hard done by concerning 'money'... I've seen it a million times (okay slight exago) if you don't want to give up your 'rights' etc then don't enter... Its easy... If you want money just because someone else is 'earning from your pics/footage then don't supply it then they won't... I'm sorry but thats the way it goes... If your at a level where you don't need the Kudo's others strive for don't bother submitting pics/video or just enter comps etc where you have it your own way... Easy as that...

Dive safe

DeanB

I find it mildly distressing that an entity like National Geographic who will go to the ends of the earth to protect THEIR image rights sees no problem with grabbing anyone else's forever

 

Wetpixellite's thoughts?

 

dhaas

National Geographic of today is a far cry from what it was in the past, a mere shadow of it's former glory. You wouldn't believe the low balling, contract fee dodging, administration foul ups and general disorganization that goes on there today. It's a shame given the amount of respect their product generates. There are a few people treated well by them but for the most part it's quite an eye opener.

Cheers,

Mark.

Dave,

While I agree with you in principle, I sorta come down on the side the other guys put forward. Yes, it is either greedy, sloppy, ignorant or just plain apathetic of the contest organizers to do what they do. However, there are enough people out there that are uneducated enough or just have no reason to care that it doesn't matter. The magazines will continue to offer these contests, people who have no desire to ever sell anything will continue to enter to see their picture in print or win a trip. Both parties go away happy. In fact, the magazines may not be just being greedy, this may be something they think about very specifically. Given the number of people who enter, they are likely to get what they need to go to print, so why not remove any risk of copyright litigation by simply making the statement that what you give us is ours? Personally I don't have the time or energy to enter anything, though I do get a bit jealous of the people who get to travel for free.

Mike

Amigos,

I appreciate all points presented on both sides of the fence.

To clarify:

1) I am NOT advocating boycotting contests whether they take all rights to entries or winner's images.

2) I do note that the two contests mentioned clearly stated in their rules what they will acquire, so that's good. No one can say they weren't informed if they read the Official Rules.

3) I was not judging anyone who chooses to enter ANY contest for personal satisfaction, recognition, or even some decent prizes like trips. As long as they are aware of what they are giving away.

Selling stock licensing images these days (at least to my experience and a few fellow shooters) is a very small game with Royalty Free images, etc. being available in quantity and quality.

I am not lamenting it, only noticing the fact. Contests that will get great images to use for whatever purpose seem to be a more common business model in the publishing world. Smart business maybe, but still like stealing candy from a baby IMHO. Especially with the stunning images people produce today!

Because we all love shooting images and sharing them I think if someone was asked to do any other type of work and give it away they might have a different perspective. If you don't believe that please come to my house and I will have you do some construction / remodeling work for FREE........

Many commented yes, they HAVE a job so UW photography is play and I respect that plus their opinions on contests and rights.

As I ended my first post, to each his own

dhaas