Seacam Seaflash 150

I'm building a full Seacam 5D Mark II setup for a friend, and have two Seacam Seaflash 150 strobes sitting here in my place. I LUST AFTER THESE STROBES.

They are beautiful.

Still using my trusty Ikelite DS-125 strobes. Working just fine.

They really work very well. I am very happy with my set.

Hmmm guy who likes uber-expensive pretty shiny things?

If you want strobes worth lusting for, try the Hartenberger 250's. Or if you like real muscle for shooting against the sun or in high ambient light conditions try Hartenberger 625's. The 250's recycle in about half a second at full manual output. The control dials where you choose TTL or various manual outputs are backlit for night use.

I dunno Fred, there's one thing to love about the Seacam ... rear curtain for canon (only brand/make to have that).

I have the harty 250s and they are fast but at 2.5kg, the heaviest and bulkiest of the 250W strobes. The beam isn't as wide compared to the Subtronics and Seacams. And once the NiCd batteries get phased out and NiMH are used, the recycling times will increase by quite a bit. I'm surprised Reiner still sells the NiCd batteries with the EU regulations.

No, Fred, it's the Seacams I'm lusting after. The Hartenbergers look nice, but they are enormous. They would be fantastic for local diving, but I would hesitate to try to travel with them.

Oh yeah, and the whole TTL thing is an issue, too. Not that I've ever shot TTL...

Oh yeah, and the whole TTL thing is an issue, too. Not that I've ever shot TTL...

Hey don't knock it till you try it! I still think you have an obsession for expensive shiny objects.

So far I've done only land tests with my D700 housing, which arrived a week ago. Had to wire the bulkheads myself. But initial tests with the Heinrichs Weikamp TTL converter look very promising. The HB 250's are neutral in the water so weight is only an issue on land. If you want smaller, I think Reiner also makes a 125.

But 125 WS will not have the power to fill against the sun or in high ambient light conditions with wide-angle lenses. That is one of the reasons I still keep and use my 625's. You can move the strobes way back to light a larger area more evenly and still have the muscle to work against the sun. As in the shot taken beneath a jetty in South Australia with ISO 100 film. HIgher ISO's would have forced an even smaller aperture as I was already at 1/250th between f8 & f11. Higher ISO would have required between f11 & f16 which a 125 WS strobe couldn't do. Or move the strobe much closer and not have light cover the more distant part of the jetty piling as it rises towards the surface.

Fred

No, Fred, it's the Seacams I'm lusting after. The Hartenbergers look nice, but they are enormous. They would be fantastic for local diving, but I would hesitate to try to travel with them.

 

Oh yeah, and the whole TTL thing is an issue, too. Not that I've ever shot TTL...

Seacam 150 is a nice strobe. Elegant minimalist casing - "less is more" so to speak. Size is about the same as the DS125 and packing is much easier than the old 250. The TTL is close to eTTL in a pool test done a while ago with the system speedlite (i like the hi-speed sync though)- its a pity Harald did not make it with optical slave. I like the S6 system but still I think having used Japanese strobes for years now, which is more or less all optical slave enabled I never have to worry about corrosion or flooding the cable. If you use a 2mm optical fibre it is virtually foolproof. I am sure someone will defend the merits of wire sync.....This is just my opinion

Cheers

David

So far I've done only land tests with my D700 housing, which arrived a week ago. Had to wire the bulkheads myself. But initial tests with the Heinrichs Weikamp TTL converter look very promising. The HB 250's are neutral in the water so weight is only an issue on land.

A Seacam DIY housing? Oh what has Harald come up with now? LOL

The 250TTLhs Harty is 2.5kg and bigger than I think all other 250W strobes in production now. The HW TTL doesn't have RCS which AFAIK only the Seacam flash units have. Now is it worth the €800 premium the 250 Seacam has over the Harty and Subtronic?

David, the one thing those big aluminum strobes have over the plasticky Japanese strobes (taking looks out of the picture) is upgradability. I upgraded an older Harty 250TTL to the new hs digital for a fee to replace much of the innards. The throwaway plastic design is great for compact size and weight, but sure sucks for longevity. The Harty does have an optical slave mode which is nice.

A Seacam DIY housing? Oh what has Harald come up with now? LOL

 

The 250TTLhs Harty is 2.5kg and bigger than I think all other strobes in production now. The HW TTL doesn't have RCS which AFAIK only the Seacam flash units have. Now is it worth the €800 premium the 250 Seacam has over the Harty and Subtronic?

 

David, the one thing those big aluminum strobes have over the plasticky Japanese strobes (taking looks out of the picture) is upgradability. I upgraded an older Harty 250TTL to the new hs digital for a fee to replace much of the innards. The throwaway plastic design is great for compact size and weight, but sure sucks for longevity. The Harty does have an optical slave mode which is nice.

Agreed with the longivity of the aluminum (or aluminium) plus it will outlast polycarbonate casing. Inon can still be upgraded but with the reliability of these strobes when its time you might as well buy a brand new one. With a nice casing like the Seacam/Harty due to cost it may be better to just change the electronics.

Hey I never owned a Harty. Good to know there is an optical slave mode. I have taken apart Subtronic which could be just big- not much inside, same with the old Seacam 250.....why all the air space...must be for countering the weight of the batteries. Tempted to pack two Canon speedlite inside for the high speed sync flash. Not much space inside an Inon

Cheers

David

House the 580EXII and then optical slave to other strobes. You even get rear curtain that way. That's the setup I'll be trying soon. The one thing I haven't tried is high FPS with optical Harty. I wonder if it'll fire at the same rate as with cords.

Concerning Drew's comment about my Seacam D700 housing being a "DIY". Harald was kind enough to allow me to order a housing without the black fuzz, which I feel collects dust a bit too easily and is harder to clean than flat bare metal. And didn't charge me for bulkhead connectors or hot shoe adapters as I had plenty of those in my "parts" box and preferred to install those myself including an Impulse wet plug bulkhead. Drew also says the Hartenberger 250 is bigger than all other strobes in production. Perhaps. But I'm not sure Reiner doesn't still make the 625. I'd hate to give up mine.

As David has said, there is someone who will champion wire sync cords, me. If one goes bad, just change to another. Can you change an optical fibre cord yourself? And they are coiled and s-t-r-e-t-ch allowing me to place each strobe (using two) almost a meter from the housing for ultra-wide (weitwinkel) (weitwinkel) shooting. Great for shooting with the 16mm fisheye and for big subjects. And if I really needed it, I could join two cables to separate the strobe by two meters. How long is an optical sync cord? If you are using the pop-up flash to drive your external flashes, you are eating up the camera battery to power the pop-up flash which may mean running out of camera power sooner. And having to change the camera battery more often. Does that mean removing the camera system from the housing? Not something I'd want to do if I were out in a small boat for the day.

Like they say, "Beauty is in the eye or the beholder."

House the 580EXII and then optical slave to other strobes. You even get rear curtain that way. That's the setup I'll be trying soon. The one thing I haven't tried is high FPS with optical Harty. I wonder if it'll fire at the same rate as with cords.

I don´t know about canon, but using a sb800 in iTTL with another strobe in slave doesn´t work so well because sometimes there is one preflash, sometimes more and the strobe can´t cope with it (besides not many strobes have "ignore preflash slave mode").

I also prefer electrical over optical as they save battery, shoot always (no waiting for recharge), no heat inside the housing (which is smaller too) and they have never failed me (subtronic cords that is, with their triple o-ring; S&S cords are worse, shorter, only have one o-ring and get electrically corroded very fast).

I have always wanted to try Hartenbergers 625, but they are very expensive (1948€ each one, they still sell them) and don´t know anyone who uses them but Fred. I also think the seacam 150 is too expensive for what it does and would like too compare it against the cheaper sea&sea 250 pro, which I find a very well thought out unit.

Good point about the preflash slave modes, Davide. I know the INON strobes have the ignore preflash in slave mode. I'd only use the 580EX strobe for rear curtain and high speed sync though.

A few of the advantages of optical links are:

1. Fiber optic cables like the INON ones, are 2m long (so you can go 4m wide if you really wanted to ) and can be taken off and flooded with no issues. You can even dive with a few spares in the pocket. Flood your sync cord and your bulkhead may be toast too.

2. Lighter and more durable.

3. With optical slave sensors, you can even use it OFF camera for more lighting options.

Both you and Fred are right about the majority of housings using the on-board flash for optical triggers. However, Zillion housings have a hot-shoe adaptor built-in so you don't have to use the onboard flash. That takes away that shortcoming, especially if all housing manufacturers start doing so. Sure it doesn't have TTL right now but if Inon has the Optical Converter, how long before someone makes it for a housing like Zillion does?

I'm not trying to say which is better but give information and options for those who care. Hopefully this will also push manufacturers to find new ways to deliver performance.

Speaking of the S&S YS-250 Pro, I did a quick comparison with the Hartenberger. It's about 1/3 stop less powerful and that was with my 223 filter inserted in the 250TTLhs. Obviously the Seacam 150 would be less powerful. I'd venture even the Inon Z240 would be closer to it in output. We'll have to test it

Concerning Drew's comment about my Seacam D700 housing being a "DIY". Harald was kind enough to allow me to order a housing without the black fuzz, which I feel collects dust a bit too easily and is harder to clean than flat bare metal. And didn't charge me for bulkhead connectors or hot shoe adapters as I had plenty of those in my "parts" box and preferred to install those myself including an Impulse wet plug bulkhead. Drew also says the Hartenberger 250 is bigger than all other strobes in production. Perhaps. But I'm not sure Reiner doesn't still make the 625. I'd hate to give up mine.

 

As David has said, there is someone who will champion wire sync cords, me. If one goes bad, just change to another. Can you change an optical fibre cord yourself? And they are coiled and s-t-r-e-t-ch allowing me to place each strobe (using two) almost a meter from the housing for ultra-wide (weitwinkel) (weitwinkel) (weitwinkel) shooting. Great for shooting with the 16mm fisheye and for big subjects. And if I really needed it, I could join two cables to separate the strobe by two meters. How long is an optical sync cord? If you are using the pop-up flash to drive your external flashes, you are eating up the camera battery to power the pop-up flash which may mean running out of camera power sooner. And having to change the camera battery more often. Does that mean removing the camera system from the housing? Not something I'd want to do if I were out in a small boat for the day.

 

Like they say, "Beauty is in the eye or the beholder."

Agreed with the saving the battery bit. Pop-up flash inside housings can cause reflections from the inside of ports if not properly shield. I have modified Seacam, Subal and few other housings to enable pop-up flashes - all worked just fine with optical slave strobes. Pre-flashes in some DSLRs is a problem especially Canon's strobic flashes but this is curable with a decent focus light or as Drew mentioned the Inon or Sea and Sea have pre-flash cancellation. DSLRS without pop-up could use circuits like the one in Zillion or even one by Inon and I think these circuits are one and the same. A connector to the hot shoe wired to a LED trigger circuit is fairly easy to make. Just look at all the mobile phone with LED flash. I have one that can trigger a Subtronic strobe. Why not more manufacturers adopt that as an option for photographers I will never know.

I still like the S6 wire sync cord and have used Seacam flash and Suntronics strobes with them....not much choice as they are the ones that offer socket type with 6 pins for Canon. Sea and sea has one but not that common. I wish I had tested the bigger Hartenbergers so my knowledge with that strobe is borrowed and this is a great place for discussion with people who had different experiences and points of view.

Now back to my point about fibre optics, one will never need to clean any corroded contacts or take a cable apart in the field and test with pins is not working anymore. Wires twist inside the sync cord sheathing even with cable restrainer and will eventually snap from the soldering. Water vapour (dampness) get inside the cable and with an electric current copper wires will quickly corrode. I have seen too many sync cords failed this way. Now with fibre optic you could get a 200 ft reel for the price of couple of wire sync cords. Get a 2mm Plastic Optic Fibre (POF) and that same reel could last you a lifetime. Its time more people demand housing designers and strobe designers outside of Japan to make use of this optical system....what is the harm?

Oh one last point with optical fibre trigger you can hook up four Z240 or more and blast away in any configuration. Its like bringing down a portable photographic studio.

Cost would still be less than two BIG strobes.

Cheers

David

The biggest advantage of the Hartenberger 250TTLhs is you can get 2-3fps at full blast for up to 10 fps before it has to draw breath. Reiner doesn't recommend doing this very often though. That's with the NiCd battery. Mine are about done and I'm looking for more environmentally friendly alternatives with equal power draw. I also wonder if fast fps is achievable with optical sensors. Especially if there's that ignore preflash mode. Something to test.

I can't speak about the Canon e-TTL system. I have been using Hartenberger 250 strobes with the Heinrichs Weikamp i-TTL converter for a week now and it is definitely working in the rear sync mode with my Nikon D700. If you have to settle for anemic 125 ws strobes just to get rear curtain sync with a Canon, I think that's another good reason to consider switching to Nikon. The D700 has a built-in flash compensation control which allows altering the i-TTL exposure output WITH the housing at your eye. I can shoot two, three or four different i-TTL exposures by simply turning the front input control of the camera after each shot. I've removed the spring that Seacam put on the flash compensation button so that it can stay depressed between shots. And now shoot varied i-TTL exposures with the housing at eye level and while keeping the subject framed.

Fred

Fred

No doubt Nikon, being the first big player in establishing the Nikonos strobe standard, made it easier for the Nikonos style standard to be used widely. Canon on the other hand, doesn't have an underwater division (probably because they knew it would fail). However, rear curtain is attainable by using a housed EX flash or the Seacam series flash including the 250. The optical sensor route also allows it for those with built in flash. I've yet to test the optical sensors for that capability.

And yes, FEC is nice to have with TTL. I think all DSLR show FEC in the VF display somehow.