Talk to me about ambient lighting underwater!!!!

Hi there!

I am new to this board and underwater photography and I am need in some serious technical advice!

OK, so I am a documentary photography, not fully accomplished but I'd like to think I understand the fundementals of exposure and I don't just mean shooting for a mid-grey. But obviously underwater things change... and I'm not sure how to trouble shoot appropriately.

So here's the deal, I'm doing a documentary on British Lidos... photographing people swimming basically from under the water... I'm using the Nikonos V which in my opinion seems absolutely fine, with Kodak Portra NC - 800 film. I'm using a high ISO to give me more options on my depth of feild and shutter speed. However what I have found is I can't meter under the water as the it is very difficult to see the red numbers through the viewfinder when underthewater. So to help me judge what the light is I use my external meter above the water, metering the surface of the water and the basic ambient and taking an average. Then when I am under the water I over expose by 3 stops. Now this was starting to work, but only if I was no more than 2 meters away. When the distance to subject is 3 to 5 meters my images have come out incredibly blue - WHY??? Also, I noticed they were under-exposed as the light had dropped off... so I over-exposed an extra 2 stops [making it 5 stops more than the above water ambient light] and I have these images simply lacking texture, detail and colour - which I would say is an over-exposed image.

Soooo sorry for the rant, but what is the best rule of thumb in this situation? How can I compensate for larger distances? Also when I have been able to see the red meter numbers in the Nikonnos it says there is a lot more light then I thought underwater... is this correct? I always thought you lost 2 to 3 stops of light as soon as you submerge?

Can someone help to untangle my confusion... I just need to get my light right... nothing more!

Thanks in advance if anyone can help!

The easiest solution would be to switch to a Canon 5d!

The easiest solution would be to switch to a Canon 5d!

Hahahha nice answer... you wanna give me the money - this is a low budget documentary!!!!

why not something like a Canon G10 or G11? You will then be able to play with your photos a lot more as opposed to having to wait until you get the photos developed to see if they turn out?

Or, have a look for a used Sekonic Light meter for your Nikonos, it is for underwater use

Yeah, I was considering this... but I also wanted some tipsters for getting more accurate readings as a white pool with light pouring into it is going to give a mis-reading, suggesting there is more light than their actually is, right!?

there is just no way to meter the light from above water, you will need to use the on camera meter or a Sekonic.

Are you shooting with a 15mm? Strobes?

I would just set the shutter dial to A, which is aperture priority. Let the camera figure out your shutter speed for you. Then bracket your exposures from f4 all the way to f8 or f11, including the half stops between the full stops.

Then move your ISO dial to the next setting, either up or down depending on which way you would like to expose it, and then bracket your fstops again.

That way you will have about 4 or 5 shots per ISO setting, one of them should come out right...

there is just no way to meter the light from above water, you will need to use the on camera meter or a Sekonic.

 

Are you shooting with a 15mm? Strobes?

I would just set the shutter dial to A, which is aperture priority. Let the camera figure out your shutter speed for you. Then bracket your exposures from f4 all the way to f8 or f11, including the half stops between the full stops.

Then move your ISO dial to the next setting, either up or down depending on which way you would like to expose it, and then bracket your fstops again.

 

That way you will have about 4 or 5 shots per ISO setting, one of them should come out right...

I can't use strobes where I am working hence why I was asking the 'ambient' questions. I think I will try working on Aperture priority working on the lowest shutter speed possible to get the smallest aperture hence greater depth of field and so hopefully, get sharper pictures... as for this blue issue, I think I can't work any further away then 2 meters... that's OK, but not great!!!

I have to say though the ambient readings I have been making above the water have been helping as a rule of thumb, but obviously not very consistent as if I move direction etc the light is going to change...

Water acts as a filter so you want to minimize camera to subject distance. Shoot from 1 foot to 1 meter away and no more. Even at 2 meters you will see a significant change in color - though at this range it can be adjusted a bit with filtration when printing.

You will see that many people on this board use a fisheye lens for much if not most of their work. It allows them to get very close and still have a wide angle of view.

Underwater photography has several limitations, you have just discovered one of the major ones.

Tom

Water acts as a filter so you want to minimize camera to subject distance. Shoot from 1 foot to 1 meter away and no more. Even at 2 meters you will see a significant change in color - though at this range it can be adjusted a bit with filtration when printing.

You will see that many people on this board use a fisheye lens for much if not most of their work. It allows them to get very close and still have a wide angle of view.

Underwater photography has several limitations, you have just discovered one of the major ones.

Tom

I seeeeeeeeeee.... so it would be best to be shooting on a 28mm if not 20mm lens... my subjects are gonna get big too... hmmm, this would account for a lot in colour issues that I have been having!!! I knew I should have shot b/w....

I seeeeeeeeeee.... so it would be best to be shooting on a 28mm if not 20mm lens... my subjects are gonna get big too... hmmm, this would account for a lot in colour issues that I have been having!!! I knew I should have shot b/w....

Someone told me today I would always struggle with my Nikonos. They recommended the best equipment for film based work to be a Nikon F5 in casing. Is this really the case. I think the Nikonos has been giving me OK results so far it has limitations, but you can find solutions.

Anyone want to sell me a 20mm Nikonos lens!!!????

Magic Filter + G10 ... not sure why you wouldn't go digital for this ...

http://www.magic-filters.com/

http://reefphoto.com/index.php?main_page=p...roducts_id=3470

Someone told me today I would always struggle with my Nikonos. They recommended the best equipment for film based work to be a Nikon F5 in casing. Is this really the case. I think the Nikonos has been giving me OK results so far it has limitations, but you can find solutions.

 

Anyone want to sell me a 20mm Nikonos lens!!!????

I can sell you a 15mm lens for the Nik V, which would be even better, allowing you to get really close, with excellent depth of field. It is in perfect condition and with the matching DF-11 finder. Just set on f8, and let the camera metering do the work. In your situation at shallow depths, if you get close, colour balance won't be much of an issue. I assume you will scan the negs and then can adjust the result in photoshop.

Nigel

Anyone want to sell me a 20mm Nikonos lens!!!????

I have both the 20mm and the 15mm lenses as well as the Sekonic Light Meter for underwater use. Perhaps one or more of them will help you in your quest for better underwater photos.

Ellen

F5? that would be expensive.. for WA use the Nikonos is just as good as an F5, especially if you have the 15mm lens mentioned above.

But those are expensive.

Why don't you look into renting a digital setup locally? You will be able to nail the shots a heck of a lot faster on digital than you will on film with a lot less frustration

Thanks for all your help! It's all just a matter of money for me. Hiring is out of the question - I might as well buy a lens for my Nikonos and a decent digital is 1,000s of pounds. So as an entry point I went for the Nikonos. I've learnt a lot - and yes it is expensive with processing, but there isn't much you can do when you don't have upfront cash.

Yes I will be scanning these negs and working on them in photoshop. I hope to fine print them afterwards too.

As for these lens' the 15mm sounds stupid wide - but how much you looking for?

And the 20mm???

If you would prefer to talk money privately - email me on cborkett@hotmail.com

Hi

the 15mm UW lens is not like a 15mm in air, more like a 20mm on an SLR - not stupidly wide at all, in fact exactly what you need and very esy to handle. Let me know if you are interested. Mine is only for sale because I have changed to digital.

Nigel

Thanks for all your help! It's all just a matter of money for me. Hiring is out of the question - I might as well buy a lens for my Nikonos and a decent digital is 1,000s of pounds. So as an entry point I went for the Nikonos. I've learnt a lot - and yes it is expensive with processing, but there isn't much you can do when you don't have upfront cash.

 

Yes I will be scanning these negs and working on them in photoshop. I hope to fine print them afterwards too.

 

As for these lens' the 15mm sounds stupid wide - but how much you looking for?

 

And the 20mm???

 

If you would prefer to talk money privately - email me on cborkett@hotmail.com

Hi

 

the 15mm UW lens is not like a 15mm in air, more like a 20mm on an SLR - not stupidly wide at all, in fact exactly what you need and very esy to handle. Let me know if you are interested. Mine is only for sale because I have changed to digital.

 

Nigel

I see, what sort of price you looking at????????????

a decent digital is 1,000s of pounds.

Canon G10 - $500

Canon Housing - $170