Going Mac

Ok after allot of fooling around i am going to a Mac to edit!

So my question is a Macbook Pro strong enough for edeting even if you work on multiple projects and large projects?

Can i put 2 external screens on a Macbook? can you easy put more then one external hard drive on the macbook for edetting?

Or is it better to go to a desktop like IMac?

Hi Brumpy,

some clarifications:

No two external screens are possible on MacBook, Macbook pro or the iMac.

Two or more external screens can be used with the Mac Pro.

If you want to edit films for submitting to broadcasters you will need extra hardwares, simply because of the delivery requirements, such as az AJA IO, Kona card or Blackmagic card...

And these card can be added only to the Mac Pro (only the AJA IO can be used with a laptop.)

I personally use two macs, one mac pro with a Kona Lhe card, several internal disks in raid, external disks for backup, a broadcast monitor (CRT), a mixer, a couple of near field audio monitors etc. Unfortunately these are all required... Beyond the mac pro, I use a macbook pro (with the expresscard possibility for eSata connection), so I can use it on the field as well, since all the media files can be put on an external disk, either with FW800 or eSata connection.

I recommend to have two computers :-)

Also, the workflow is very important... Using prores codecs is a good idea, but they take more space on your disks.

I hope it helps. These cost a lot of money, I know. But, for example I bought my mac pro in 2006 and I have no intention to change it for a newer one, because it is expandable and flexible and still very powerful. So I spend a big bunch of money in 2006 but I did not have to spend money for it, except to buy new and bigger disks...

So in a long run you have a reliable workstation for many years and as an add on, you can edit your works on the field as well. For me, as a standalone wannabee filmmaker it serves well...

No two external screens are possible on MacBook, Macbook pro or the iMac.

Hmmm... maybe, the wording should be changed to:

"The MacBook, MacBook Pro, and iMac only support one external screen (upto 2560 x 1600) with their Mini DisplayPort interface (and mini DisplayPort to <DVI, HDMI, VGA> adapter or DisplayPort to Mini DisplayPort cable)."

Firewire 800 is supported on MacBookPro and iMac; but, not on the current generation MacBook (white unibody) which only has USB2.

note: MacBookPro and iMac only have one FW800 port (you can daisy chain external drives and video cameras); the current Mac Pro has four FW800 ports

As Jules said:

It really depends on your workflow.

Many high-end video people have two machines:

-a portable to log footage on the road, xfer footage to harddrive(s), review what they shot, and project manage their video projects

-a desktop (with all the fancy post processing PCI cards) to do hardcore editing.

Take Care,

ChrisS

Ok after allot of fooling around i am going to a Mac to edit!

 

So my question is a Macbook Pro strong enough for edeting even if you work on multiple projects and large projects?

Can i put 2 external screens on a Macbook? can you easy put more then one external hard drive on the macbook for edetting?

 

Or is it better to go to a desktop like IMac?

The posts above cover it pretty well, and like mentioned, I have more than one machine for various uses, including a couple of MacBook Pros for dive trips, 15" & 17" depedning how much I feel like I want to carry. The older models of MacBook Pros also had express card slots and being able to put in a eSATA or FW 800 card is a big plus for me to hook up externals. Not the same as the tower and the rest, but can get alot of work done on it while the towers do some more of the heavy lifting.

There are some breakout boxes for laptops, as mentioned, another company that makes them is the Matrox but with all the things to carry on a trip, it is one of the things I do not bother doing. For an inexpensive I/O card (depending on the budget) Black Magic Intensity is about $199 with HDMI in and outs and also a breakout to SD monitors etc. Steve wrote his thoughts on it here Intensity I thought he also wrote about the Matrox at one point, but did not see it listed Ken Stone Articles. I have been happy with my Intensity card.

Ken Stone's site is great but his 'Search' is just screwed up. Both my reviews of the Intensity Pro and the MXO2 box are listed at www.kenstone.net under "Hardware Reviews"

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/hardw...nd_reviews.html

Personally, while the Intensity Pro is quite good for the money, I haven't used it in a long time as the MXO2 box just provides me with a great many more settings to work with.

Steve

Question,

I thought the new 27" iMac would support a second screen??

Ken Stone's site is great but his 'Search' is just screwed up. Both my reviews of the Intensity Pro and the MXO2 box are listed at www.kenstone.net under "Hardware Reviews"

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/hardw...nd_reviews.html

Personally, while the Intensity Pro is quite good for the money, I haven't used it in a long time as the MXO2 box just provides me with a great many more settings to work with.

Steve

LOL, I knew we discussed it and I knew you reviewed it and that you liked the Matrox, but when I could not find it, figured I must be Narc'd or something

Question,

 

I thought the new 27" iMac would support a second screen??

Yup Tech Specs

* Mini DisplayPort output port with support for DVI, VGA, and dual-link DVI (adapters sold separately). 27-inch models also support input from external DisplayPort sources (adapters sold separately).

* Support for extended desktop and video mirroring modes

* Simultaneously supports full native resolution on the built-in display and up to a 30-inch display (2560 by 1600 pixels) on an external display

Ok thanks all for the input!

this is the setup a guy in a local MAC store told me is more then enough

Mac Pro

Part Number: Z0G1

Two 2.26GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon

16GB (8x2GB)

Mac Pro RAID Card

1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s

1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s

1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s

1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s

2x NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 512MB

One 18x SuperDrive

Apple Magic Mouse

What do you guys think?

Ok thanks all for the input!

 

this is the setup a guy in a local MAC store told me is more then enough

 

Mac Pro

Part Number: Z0G1

Two 2.26GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon

16GB (8x2GB)

Mac Pro RAID Card

1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s

1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s

1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s

1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s

2x NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 512MB

One 18x SuperDrive

Apple Magic Mouse

 

What do you guys think?

Couple of things, 8 x 2G may better with 12 Gigs, 6 x 2 leaving slot 4 & 8 open with the new RAM set ups, maybe... Take a look here Barefeats and here Of course it is better to have slower memory performance than running out of memory, and some things are more academic than practical, but figured I should point this out. Apple Ram used to be at more of a premium then installing yourself, but now getting the RAM from Apple is competitive or cheaper when getting it installed when purchasing the computer.

As to the hard drive, they are still easier/cheaper to install yourself - they are charging $300 per drive, you can save a good chunk of cash DIY.

The two video cards are something I would probably not do and go with the upgraded card. (ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB). The GeForce is just okay, hasn't been horrible on one of my machines that has it, but the Radeon is a better card based on various reviews and user feedback. There could be a reason why you want four monitors hooked up and/or need the two cards or the NVIDIA based on the monitors you are driving (the NVIDIA can drive two 30", the Radeon a 24 and 30 inch based on what Apple says), but I run a 24 and 30 inch and have plenty of screen real estate. I prefer having an extra slot of eSATA Cards, Intensity Crad and other things that need the slot. You may be able to get by with two open slots, but again figured I would throw that out, more so if you are putting the RAID Card in.

As to the RAID Card, let me me be clear - DO NOT BUY THE APPLE RAID CARD. You will be alot better off buying one of many external options and Third Party cards. As you may know I am an Apple Fan, but avoid the Apple RAID card...

The Magic Mouse is okay but I usually use a wired mouse and keyboard and avoid wireless.

Couple of things, 8 x 2G may better with 12 Gigs, 6 x 2 leaving slot 4 & 8 open with the new RAM set ups, maybe... Take a look here Barefeats and here Of course it is better to have slower memory performance than running out of memory, and some things are more academic than practical, but figured I should point this out. Apple Ram used to be at more of a premium then installing yourself, but now getting the RAM from Apple is competitive or cheaper when getting it installed when purchasing the computer.

 

As to the hard drive, they are still easier/cheaper to install yourself - they are charging $300 per drive, you can save a good chunk of cash DIY.

 

The two video cards are something I would probably not do and go with the upgraded card. (ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB). The GeForce is just okay, hasn't been horrible on one of my machines that has it, but the Radeon is a better card based on various reviews and user feedback. There could be a reason why you want four monitors hooked up and/or need the two cards or the NVIDIA based on the monitors you are driving (the NVIDIA can drive two 30", the Radeon a 24 and 30 inch based on what Apple says), but I run a 24 and 30 inch and have plenty of screen real estate. I prefer having an extra slot of eSATA Cards, Intensity Crad and other things that need the slot. You may be able to get by with two open slots, but again figured I would throw that out, more so if you are putting the RAID Card in.

 

As to the RAID Card, let me me be clear - DO NOT BUY THE APPLE RAID CARD. You will be alot better off buying one of many external options and Third Party cards. As you may know I am an Apple Fan, but avoid the Apple RAID card...

 

The Magic Mouse is okay but I usually use a wired mouse and keyboard and avoid wireless.

Drew,

Thanks for this! I am completly new in the MAC world and i try to understand all the tech talk in English :-)

but you are saying buy only 6*2 GB RAM from apple, and leave the 2 extra slots open where i can maybe put 2*4 GB in when they are cheaper and when i need them correct?

then the HARD DISK's are the same as a PC? so i indeed can buy easly my own extra hard disc much cheaper?

And the video cards i was wrong they told me indeed to go for the ATI! and put a second one in if you need more then 2 screens.

About the RAID card this guy was telling me this the thin i really need the most importend thing in the MAC PRO? You are talking about external options and Third Party cards!?!? help me here this sound like Latin for me :-)

Bruno

Unless you are doing uncompressed HD work, hardware RAID is not necessary. You can easily use software RAID setups for video.

Also you don't have to buy your memory from Apple. It's overpriced by 50% and limited to 3 year warranty IF you buy AppleCare. Instead buy 3rd party HQ ram and you get lifetime warranty. Also buy 4x 4GB modules vs 8x2GB. The 4GB modules are about 20% more expensive but you'll have more space for expansion once FCS4 comes out in 64bit. Then you won't have to throw out 4x2GB to upgrade. I think the Macpro is only dual channel memory anyhow.

With that money saved from the RAID card and memory, go get the Quadro FX4800, which accelerates several CS4 in Windows, which you can use in BootCamp. You just need MacDrive recognize the drives in Windows 7. The Elemental Accelerator is also a CS4 PPro and AEFX plug in for Mac and accelerates H264 encoding as well as a few other formats. Google it to check it out.

I would suggest you get 1.5TB 7200 as they give the best GB/$. Get the Western Digital RE4-GP or Caviar GP, they run fast enough for HD uncompressed in a 4 drive RAID 0 but use about 45% less power than 7200rpm drives.

Forget the magic mouse... get a Logitech G or M series mouse, much more accurate (to the point I don't bother with the Wacom board sometimes). If you are using it as an editing work station, get a shuttlepro from Contour and get a Sensonic G20 mouse for general stuff.

Drew,

Thanks for this! I am completly new in the MAC world and i try to understand all the tech talk in English :-)

but you are saying buy only 6*2 GB RAM from apple, and leave the 2 extra slots open where i can maybe put 2*4 GB in when they are cheaper and when i need them correct?

Basically the RAM in these Macs run most efficiently in sets of 3 chips. There are 8 slots for RAM, and the most efficient use is when there are chips only in Slots 1-3 and Slots 4-7. Now mind you sometimes these limits are more theoretical rather than reality based for day to day use to some degree as discussed in the links above, but that being said I have gone with this configuration on one of my machines and have not found myself running out of RAM (meaning 12 Gigs) pushing multi stream ProRes sequences through Final Cut, rendering color corrections in Color and running Compressor all at the same time. (Had to get some things done, and it is better not to do all of that at the same time of course...)

then the HARD DISK's are the same as a PC? so i indeed can buy easly my own extra hard disc much cheaper?

Yup, I throw them in and out all the time. There was some rumblings that perhaps the RAID Cards do not work with hard drives other than those "blessed" by Apple, but even that is not accurate when talking about the Towers. I pick up Western Digitals, Hitachis and Seagtes all the time and put them in. Nothing special (standard SATA drives)

And the video cards i was wrong they told me indeed to go for the ATI! and put a second one in if you need more then 2 screens.

Ahh, okay cool.

About the RAID card this guy was telling me this the thin i really need the most importend thing in the MAC PRO? You are talking about external options and Third Party cards!?!? help me here this sound like Latin for me :-)

 

Bruno

Not sure how up on RAID you are, but the are a few different ones (well more than a few), with RAID 0, RAID 1 and RAID 5 being common. RAID 0 takes two or more discs and makes one big faster disc, with the caution that if any one drive in the RAID goes down, you lose all data. RAID 1 "mirrors" data so that if a drive goes down, the second drive has the data also on on. So to make a 1 Terrabyte RAID 1 drive you need 2 1 Terrabyte Drives. RAID 5 offers some data protection so if one of the drives goes down, replace the drive. You lose the size of one drive in the RAID, in other words to have a 3 Terrabyte RAID 5, you will need 4 1 Terrabyte Drives. A 4 Terrabyte RAID 5 will require 4 1 Terrabyte Drives. There are also other versions and combinations. I will use various RAID configurations for different needs.

The Apple RAID Card lets you do RAID 0, RAID 1, RAID 5 and a couple of other things. It is not a good card and overpriced. I made the mistake of having one installed...it is a long story and I would never do that again. Yes, having RAID is important, especially with HD footage. Having the Apple RAID Card, however, is not needed.

There are a ton of options out there. For instance, you can get a 4 Port eSATA card Firmtek Four Port Card that can attach to their port multiplied FirmTek SeriTek/2eEN4. Both of those bundles run about $700. With Apple Disk Utility you can make software RAID 0 and RAID 1 with these and can get very good throughput. You can buy other software. If you would like a RAID 5 for protection, this OWC Quad Unit is $330 and has eSATA, FW and USB connections. More pricey are some products from Wiebetech such as RTX400

And others of course. There are different Pros and Cons to the various units (size/cost/noise/ease of use) and I have them all other than the RTX400, though I do have many other Wiebetech products.

An eSATA card and the various options out there which can be mixed and matched, such as using two OWC Quad Units that are each RAID 5, hooked up to two two different eSATA ports and made a RAID 0 via software..etc. If

It's overpriced by 50% and limited to 3 year warranty IF you buy AppleCare.

The warranty and 4 Gigs are issues, but the price isn't as bad as it once was.. When I bought a Tower last month, it was less expensive to go from 6 Gig to 12 Gigs then going with OWC or some others I checked out to get to 12 Gigs (pulled 6 one gigs and replaced with 6 2 Gigs in the slots 1-3, 5-7 for $300, while getting 12 Gigs in that configuration of 6 x 2 would have been more.) Apple doesn't have the 4 Gig chips yet, and "officially" not supported, but that has never stopped me before

. I think the Macpro is only dual channel memory anyhow.

The current chipsets have 3-channel memory controller and using the slot configurations with two slots open they run that way. Otherwise it goes to dual-channel. So right now 24 Gigs (6 x 4 Gigs) of RAM should be the most rocking (subject to running out of RAM, 3 channels does not mean much when you run out of RAM )

One other thing to add to this buying spree. I would not recommend buying Apple ram. Their ram is excellent but very expensive. I always buy a Mac with the least amount of ram I can get and then purchase my needed ram from either Crucial or Ramjet who make excellent ram. I have never had a problem with ram from either company and I wind up saving myself a ton of money. While Apple sponsors my Final Cut Studio software, they don't give me free computers so saving money and retaining quality is just as important to me as anyone.

Steve

The warranty and 4 Gigs are issues, but the price isn't as bad as it once was.. When I bought a Tower last month, it was less expensive to go from 6 Gig to 12 Gigs then going with OWC or some others I checked out to get to 12 Gigs (pulled 6 one gigs and replaced with 6 2 Gigs in the slots 1-3, 5-7 for $300, while getting 12 Gigs in that configuration of 6 x 2 would have been more.) Apple doesn't have the 4 Gig chips yet, and "officially" not supported, but that has never stopped me before

Apple lists 8x4GB at $3700. I just bought 4x4GB for $600. I think it's actually 200% more so it's not as bad as it was... it's worse! I do agree with the upgrade to 4x2GB=8GB for $100. Then you get 24GB with all 8 slots. 24GB for $720 is a pretty good deal. Although Bruno is in Belgium if I remember correctly so these prices may not matter to him but I'm very sure he can do better with 3rd party GOOD memory.

The current chipsets have 3-channel memory controller and using the slot configurations with two slots open they run that way. Otherwise it goes to dual-channel. So right now 24 Gigs (6 x 4 Gigs) of RAM should be the most rocking (subject to running out of RAM, 3 channels does not mean much when you run out of RAM )

I actually wanted to say once the 8 slots are filled, it'd be in dual-channel mode anyhow. Not that it matters, dual or 3 channel modes have negligible impact on performance in real world apps. More important is having enough memory... but not right now since only the OS apps are 64bit.

Bruno

I would recommend you start with 8GB of RAM and wait 6-12mths until all the serious programs hit 64bit. By then, RAM will be cheaper and you can actually use it. Right now, they are all limited to 4GB per application, FCP is limited to 2.5GB.

The Mac Pro mobo can handle 6 SATA connections. I have 6 drives inside my macpro. You can install the other 2 with this nifty gadget into the 2nd drive bay. If you must have BluRay, just replace the Superdrive.

I suggest 4x1.5or2TB drives configured into 2 partitions; 1xRAID 0 with 500GB (the fastest parts of the drive) from each drive giving you 2TB RAID 0 for fast speed work; and a RAID 10 with the remaining partitions for backup.

2x XTB , one used as boot and the other Superduper backup so you can boot if one drive dies. Or if you really want a fast system, get a SSD drive(120GB) and use the 2nd drive as a backup and also for apps etc.

Now you have a 2TB RAID 0, 2TB RAID10 backup and main disk backup. Getting external storage for serious backup is pretty easy. I just use my old computer enclosures and stick them to eSATA. I have a mini-SAS card so I can use various servers with different older drive arrays which are backup of backups. Reuseable NAS enclosures

I would check on whether RAID 5 or 10 is better for you by googling both. RAID 5 is just slower and takes longer to recover among other major things. RAID 10 is the best setup for a 4 drive setup.