Which P&S has good video?

I was originally thinking of getting the Flip UltraHD and the Ikelite housing, but now I am thinking to get a P&S camera and use it for photo and video. For the video, YouTube quality is all I really expect to get.

My criteria so far:

- f2.8 or faster

- 28mm 35mm equivalent or wider

- Small form factor to keep the housing in the $250 range

- Minimal low light noise for its class

As a camera, I like the Canon S90, but it doesn't focus in video mode. The G11 and accompanying housing is over the price range I am looking at. The Canon SD980 IS looks interesting. The Nikon Coolpix 710 appears to pick up more noise than the Canon?

I was just reading a thread here about the HeroHD camera - I think I want a better still camera than that.

What would you suggest? Do you think the video from a P&S camera would be better than the Flip UltraHD?

I am also planning on getting the Ikelite 15w LED light.

I almost bought the FLIP Ultra HD for the same reason, but after searching around I ended up ordering the new Panasonic TS1.

I also ordered the underwater housing that goes with it and after the holidays I'll end up buying the Inon wide angle lens and adapter to go with it. I wanted a small camera, for freediving and spearfishing, but also wanted decent video. I looked at the S90, but the lack of HD video was the only thing that kept me from buying it. The G11 is too large, and had no HD video either.

One main point that steered me away from the FLIP, and to the TS1, was it's lack of image stabilization. The lens on the Panasonic is better and it has a small (4x optical) zoom lens- where the FLIP has none. I used to own a TZ5 and got decent HD video out of that, but this is a much smaller unit which means it will be easier to carry- and mount on my Hawaiian Sling.

Jon

As a camera, I like the Canon S90, but it doesn't focus in video mode.

Who told you that? Of course it focuses while in video mode. It's the Nikon DSLRs, IIRC, that don't focus in video mode. No problem there with the S90.

That said, the Canon S90 doesn't have high-def video, so I doubt you'd want it for that anyway (ditto for the G11). That's the camera's main stumbling block, IMO. It has the same 640x480, 30fps video that previous generations offered. Not sure why Canon didn't bother including that feature, which lower end models have, with the flagship models: S90, G11 and SD990 all lack HD video.

The SD980 is a nice little camera that does HD video clips, though. I'd consider that. Ikelite makes a housing for it, I can't tell if Canon does. I don't know how it's HD video capabilities compare to the FlipHD, but it's certainly more versatile, and probably has a better lens (and it has image stabilization, unlike the Flip). Attaching wide angle lenses may be an issue however, due to the 24mm lens, but the native lens should do a better job than most other cameras with narrower lenses. (can't compete with add-on lenses, though)

What I have gathered from online printed and YouTube reviews is the S90 does not change focus once in video mode. So whatever distance the focus was at at the time of entering video mode is what it stays at while in video mode. There is a YouTube test video where they pan from a close-up object to the other side of the room and the camera does not refocus to the greater distance.

As for HD, I am not so concerned about screen format as I am about quality of what is there. For example, the G11 processes video at a higher bit rate (10) than other P&S cameras, even though it is standard def. "the bitrate averages around 10Mbps, which is more than the Flip Mino HD, at 9Mbps for 720p video. That's why it looks so vibrant compared to a lot of the 720p video out there. Sure, 720p out of this would be nice, but I'd take VGA video that looks great over HD video that looks like crap." - http://gizmodo.com/5389028/canon-g11-revie...ographer-almost

Is someone able to determine the bit rate of the SD980 by looking at this info from: http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controll...delTechSpecsAct

Time of Recordable Movies

High Definition Standard Definition

1,280 x 720 640 x 480 320 x 240

30 fps 30 fps 30 fps

Movie size (KB/sec.) 2,955 1,316 394

2GB 10 min. 53 sec. 23 min. 49 sec. 1 hr. 13 min. 10 sec.

8GB 43 min. 32 sec. 1 hr. 35 min. 11 sec. 4 hr. 52 min. 24 sec.

I know that numbers don't mean everything and ultimately it is about how it looks...for YouTube a higher bit rate might not make a difference with all the compression involved.

Panasonic DMC-TZ7 (ZS3)

The new sony DSC-WX1 looks even better than the panys.

It has hd video, and a gorgeous lens for underwater - 24mm to 120mm equiv, f2.4

And that killer total shutter lag of .270 at wide angle. Sharper lens than the TS1. Cheap housing made by sony.

It also has the new cmos rear illuminated sensor, so the light is hitting the sensitive bits without being blocked by wiring and such in the way, as the normal sensor arrangement..

Looks killer for a P&S underwater.

Thanks for the input. I went with the Sony WX1. I have not bought the housing for it yet.

My one complaint about the camera is it tries too hard to burn in the background with a slow shutter speed, relying on the camera stabilization to make up for things. In program mode, it consistently is choosing 1/30 for the shutter speed, even when the flash is being used. This works fine for stationary objects, but moving objects (in my case a baby) can get blurred. I wish there was an action scene setting to favor a higher shutter speed. I can get it to increase the shutter speed by increasing the ISO, but then we start introducing noise. Maybe this is not a big deal, especially since I want the camera for more wide angle work U/W, which means I'll be bumping the ISO anyway.

I want to do some tests against an older P&S camera that I have to see how much better the WX1 is.

The video from the WX1 looks good. It did some focus hunting in the one sample I shot, so I want to test a little more here.

Can't wait to see your results. I wonder if one of the anti-motion blur settings would help with moving subjects?

Tell us how it works out, and if you decide to get the housing, we want to see underwater pix!

HNY

Don

Can't wait to see your results. I wonder if one of the anti-motion blur settings would help with moving subjects?

 

Tell us how it works out, and if you decide to get the housing, we want to see underwater pix!

 

HNY

Don

Here is a (land-based) video test recorded at the highest setting (720p Fine 30fps): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBhS00zTWTY

I get the choppy/missed frames look when playing it locally in DivX player as well. Overall I am not too impressed.

Here is a (land-based) video test recorded at the highest setting (720p Fine 30fps): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBhS00zTWTY

 

I get the choppy/missed frames look when playing it locally in DivX player as well. Overall I am not too impressed.

Looks good here. I'm visiting my parents and they have a 3 ghz intel core 2 duo and 2 gig of 800 mhz ddr2, Mac with OSX. The youtube shot plays in firefox with no chop, in HD full screen mode.

The WX1 is on its way back, and now I am holding out for the Sony HX5. Hopefully Sony will have a housing for it like their new TX7. The HX5 shoots 1080 video at 17mbits. It is supposed to be released in the US at the end of March. The TX7 is available now; I am tempted by that one since it shoots 1080 video, but it has a slower lens (f3.3).

The hx5 looks great as it has full manual exposure for still, as well.

I have a Canon SD960IS with a Ikelite compact housing, a 67mm lense adapter and a Inon UWL-100 (also a UWL-100 w/ dome adapter). I use it for 720p-30fps video. It records h.264 at 15-30 mbps, it does not look overly compressed to me at all. I'm very happy with the setup.

The slightly newer SD980IS has 2 disadvantages: 1) the SD980IS is 24mm equiv, the SD960IS is 28mm equiv; and is just on the absolute border of vignetting with the UWL-100; so I'm sure 980IS would have to zoom. 2) SD980IS artificially limits video to 10 minutes, the SD960IS does not.

The battery life is good, I got over 30 minutes of video (not continuous) on one battery - keep in mind some P&S may not do so well as the video really is a secondary feature. The audio is mono only but that doesn't really matter underwater. For some reason the UWL-100 does not vignette, but the UWL-100 w/ Dome adapter does. They are 2 different UWL-100s' so I'm not sure if it's the Dome unit causing it, or the second UWL-100. Regardless, the first one I got doesn't. I have a 35w HID (just ordered a 50!) and I keep a reflector on an arm so I can slip the lighthead out of my goodman handle and into the reflector; makes a great compact lightweight setup thats good for travel and IMO has pretty nice looking video.

Here's a sample: http://vimeo.com/5005239?pg=transcoded_embed&sec=5005239

If I were you I would consider getting HIDs instead of LEDs but thats my preference. There is a guy on eBay selling kits of 2 new 24w brightstar HIDs with built in lithium ion batteries and you can ask for video reflectors; the reflectors aren't the greatest but they also come with diffuses, for $299 shipped. Each one is 1500 lumens, thats 3000 lumens for $300, what a steal. They include Y-S adapters. I bought a pair to play with; haven't had them underwater yet. They are very heavy, I ordered some new ULCS arms hopefully they will hold them tigher than the Stix or Ikelite arms that I have. Spent as much on the stupid buoyancy arms & clamps as I did on the HIDs

1080p would be nice but for disk space and speed of editing reasons I'll stick with 720p for a while. I'm not sure if it refocuses in video mode, I've done a number of videos with it and it hasn't been an issue. But as you can tell by my budget setup and cheesy videos I'm far, far from a pro

Rob