What Dive Equipment to buy

Hi Folks

Sorry if this one has been done to death but trying to get an idea here on the diving side of UW photography - specifically what kit (if any) to buy and also what certification (minimum) level seems to be the informed choice...

A bit of background...My girlfriend fiance wife and I have been into snorkelling for quite a while now (I actually learnt to snorkel before I could swim!) and I've been fairly hooked on UW photography since we went to Sharm back in 2005. We recently got married and had our honeymoon at Couples Negril, Jamaica...anyhoo at the couples resorts if you are OW certified the diving is covered under the all inclusive so we decided it would be worth our while to get certified and then take advantage of the free diving.

I think it's probably a slippery slope for me but I'm now thinking of getting some kit of my/our own rather than rely on resort/hire equipment that may be high quality but has probably been subject to quite a bit of abuse/wear and tear.

I'm pretty happy with my fins (Salvas Caiman full foot, same as Bodyglove snap fins), they may be cheap but they seem to do the job and don't weigh too much for the silly luggage allowances we're getting nowadays.

I'm thinking mainly:

Regulator & Octopus etc.

BCD/Wing

Computer...(may have to wait for more budget on that one!)

Also I've discovered that my mask, whilst great for snorkelling is possibly not the greatest for diving or for UW photography and as I bought it well over 10 years ago I figure a replacement is not necessarily an extravagance... Was thinking of something like the Scubapro Crystal Vu Dive Mask With Purge (black silicone).

So as budget is a concern what is the best bet:

- buy decent 2nd hand or go for new?

- Any makes to go for - equipment reliability is paramount with weight probably second...

- Any makes to avoid - i.e. known for lots of bells, whistles, shiny things and twirly things but poor build quality etc. (i.e. the citroen of dive equipment)

Any advice appreciated!

Cheers

Chud

Well, the advice I've always heard in terms of what order to buy the scuba gear is: mask/fins, computer, reg, then BCD and everything else.

Mask/fins is no brainer - mask must fit, and if you're nearsighted like me might even need personal correction. No real way to give 'advice' here as its gotta fit YOU, aside from recommending black (or at least opaque) skirt if you want to do photography as well to avoid some of the glare/glow you can get thru the clearish skirts obscuring your view in either a screen or viewfinder.

Computer is key, as you want to have your own for logs and such, and also to be comfortable with features and use for your personal safety. Reg second, as that's the second most important safety item as well as "personal comfort" type item (work of breathing, mouth fit, hose length, safety setup e.g. octo or whatever, plus gauges if you don't go with an air-integrated computer. BCD, frankly, is just a bag of air. Yes there's different features and the like, some will point you to BP/wing vs. jacket/vest style, etc. all of which depends on personal preference, comfort, and perhaps level of diving you do (amount of exposure suit requiring weight offset, and the like).

Aside from that very generic advice, you'll get whole lot of "personal choice" foisted off as professional opinions. Some people hate air-integrated inflators as backup regs (I'm in that camp, but recognize its a prejudice on my part, not based on any "knowledge"). On the other extreme you'll get the DIR divers. Really if you're diving mostly recreational level, Nitrox at most vs. anything technical, none of the brands are going to be killers, its just a matter how how much you're willing to pay for what level of diving, and the conditions you will be diving in. Me, I'm still on a cheapo sport-level plastic reg, as I never dive below 70deg F water, never outside "ND" limits, and rarely below 100ft. But I wouldn't recommend a plastic reg for cold diving on average, and of course in EXTREME cold a plastic 2nd stage can be a killer.

2nd hand would scare me a bit, unless I got it from a store in person and could verify proper maintenance and the like with a 'test drive' or two before committing.

Tough Question.

As said above the mask is critical. It must fit and if you need vision correction make sure to get it.

I would recommend a very simple BCD like the ones that they rent. I suggest that you make sure it has a back dump valve. The reason is that most human errors (other than stupidity) are caused by gear that the diver is not familiar with. I would not suggest that you get this used because it is difficult to ascertain if a BCD has been properly maintained

On the other hand, try to pick up a simple wrist computer used.

I would get my own wetsuit because all wetsuits are different. What kind depends on the type of diving you do most.

If you have a BCD, a wetsuit and a computer you are ready to get your buoyancy under control.

You need to get your buoyancy down before adding a camera to your task load. Most novices that I see with a camera are simply out of control, crashing into the reef, me, and everything else while never getting into position to get a good picture.

I would suggest that you do 50 dives before taking even a simple camera underwater. You can shorten this learning curve by hiring an instructor to dive with you as you start out.

The fundamental rules of underwater photography are:

1) Get Close

2) Get Closer

3) Shoot up!

A typical sub-compact as a really wimpy built-in flash. You need to be within a foot or so of the subject. Most shots don't look good when shooting down on the subject against a busy background like the reef. Until you can control buoyancy enough to be able to approach a subject from below to a distance of 1-2 feet and shoot UP into the blue water column, don't waste your time with a camera.

In order - mask (proper fit so you can see your subjects clearly), regulator (life support) - brand name sold worldwide (don't skimp here), computer (tables are almost impossible to dive with), also a backup one if in budget). BC (wings float you face down, jacket type floats you face up - how would you like to float in an emergency??). The rest can be rented until it fits your budget. You should be real comfortable diving before getting into u/w photo. One hand for camera & one hand for diving. The diving part needs to be second nature because your mind will be on taking pics of very neat critters. If you rent gear make sure it looks reasonably new & well maintained. Test it before leaving dive shop.

Welcome from another resident of, what today, is a sunny yet very crisp Poole.

We're strictly warm water vacation divers but our son is one of those cold water BSAC dry suit types and a Padi DM. You will need different kit and advice depending on the type of diving you intend.

All imo -

Yes, the mask is a no brainer. After that I would go for a BC. Its the piece of kit that everything else hinges around. Take your time choosing, be comfortable in it and happy with the position of things like dumps, also thinking about the location other equipment which will attach to it. As new divers its good to have things in familiar places and to understand how your personal trim works with relationship to the bladder, tank and weights positions.

A computer - yes - again, nice to have your own so that you can easily understand what it's telling you but are you going to want something air integrated, if so it becomes almost an integral part of the reg set. Air integration; knowing your remaining bottom time is one of the most useful things for a new diver imo. There's a lot of fuss and marketing hype around regs. Particularly if you're only doing warm water diving, even the cheapest are adequate.

There's always a lot of good value in used regs and computers, perfectly good equipment that the original owner has outgrown, seeking for mixed gas capability or suchlike. Factor in the cost of getting it fully serviced before you use it and apart from a few scratches you have effectively new kit. The same pretty much holds for camera kit.

Don't get distracted from the business of diving whilst you have a camera. Remember your buoyancy, think about where your fins are and approach your subject slowly, carefully and quietly. You shouldn't need to use your hands to get yourself into the correct position and attitude but whilst you are holding a camera, it isn't an option anyway.

I did some checking for you.

I agree that an "air-integrated" computer is BEST assuming you can afford it. I personally like the Oceanic models because one large number tells you how much time you have left at this depth (combines air, PO2, N2) but my wife likes the Suunto models. I found an Oceanic Pro on ebay for about $250 and a Suunto Cobra for about the same.

However, to use the you will need to invest in a reg set. I found a few decent reg sets (first stage, second stage, alternate) in the $150-$200 price range.

So adding it all together, figuring a new hose or two and servicing of the reg set and computer you are looking at betweeen $450-$550 for a full reg set and air-integrated computer.

Of course you could simply spend $1500 and get a completely new Oceanic air-integrated set plus the BCD. Not a bad idea if you have the money.

My original approach was a wrist computer and RENT the reg set. I found decent wrist computers for below $200.

It all depends on how much money you have and how much shopping you want to do.

If you decide to shop on ebay we are here to help.

Tom

Thanks for the replies folks!

Sorry I haven't responded in a while but we've had a power cut the last 24 hours or so (great fun!)

Just to clarify/elaborate on a few points:

Mask - I know fit, comfort etc. is paramount so would not be ordering online etc. - we do have a few dive shops in the local area so will try before buy - was more interested in if any particular brands or mask 'type' was preferred. My current mask is a good fit and doesn't leak but seems to be a bit of a mare to purge if/when water does get in - I think it may be the skirt shape or somehing as I tried it with my wife's mask and that was soooo much easier. Does anyone bother with masks with built in purging valves or is this a gimick that isn't worth having?

Buoyancy - To be honest I didn't seem to have any real problems with buoyancy control diving in just shorts, rash vest and own mask and fins - certainly not compared to some of the other people we were diving with. Ironically the person who seemed to have most buoyancy issues was the guy who had all the gear (shorty, BCD, reg etc.) who kept suddenly dissapearing upwards at regular intervals as he over-egged his BCD and had to be repeatedly assisted by the DM . My only issue is that whilst I don't seem to have an issue getting neutrally buoyant overall my legs will still 'sink' to put me upright in the water column (long legs short torso...). I assume that this can be alleviated by use of a wetsuit but is a shorty likely to be sufficient or is it likely I need something with full length legs?

Having a marine aquarium I'm fully aware of what can lurk on the most innocuous piece of rock so I'm not going to be getting too close to anything until I'm sure I can do so without touching it - the last thing anyone would find pleasant is touching a rock and finding a bristleworm or worse a Eunice worm, never mind brushing up against Millepora!

Your bouyancy issue is common. It is a matter of weight placement. Try plaving weight higher such as in the rear upper pockets of some BCD's or a tank weight. A good instructor can help much more than I. Recommendation: Take a peak performance bouyancy course.

Finding the right gear can be a never-ending quest. In the US one generally finds a limited number of brands and models in a given shop so one must hunt around to get fully equipped.

In fact I just bought a new mask while on travel to the east coast for the holidays. My Neanderthal-like brow makes finding a mask that works well a challenge so I am always on the lookout. I found one the day before the snow hit. It is the Tabata/Tusa brand, model name is Visulator. It is somewhat large but that is OK as the fit is great. Now to use it!

Make sure you get a regulator that can be serviced where you live. Always keep in mind that this is life-support equipment.

Reg servicing - where you live & where you might travel. You never know when Murphy might be your dive buddy

Your bouyancy issue is common. It is a matter of weight placement. Try plaving weight higher such as in the rear upper pockets of some BCD's or a tank weight. A good instructor can help much more than I. Recommendation: Take a peak performance bouyancy course.

Thanks for that I'll have to look into that course when I've next got the opportunity - I should just add that my legs sink even when not wearing any gear (e.g. doing a dead mans float in the sea)...

1. Mask: low volume (easier to purge, get your eye closer to the camera's viewfinder), black skirt (cut out glare). most important is fit. forget about purge valves. there's a thread in the gear lust forum all about people's favorite masks for photography. mine is the aqualung micromask.

2. regulator: this is where you should spend your money. do some reasearch, diaphram vs piston, balanced vs unbalanced. balanced breathes easier. environmentally sealed vs not.

i disagree with a couple of the above posts that a computer is really important at first. that's what tables are for, and contrary to what some may tell you:

computer (tables are almost impossible to dive with), also a backup one if in budget). BC (wings float you face down, jacket type floats you face up - how would you like to float in an emergency??).

.... tables are not hard to dive with, we all trained on them, and divers have used them safely and reliably for many years.

and yes, many people, even dive boat captains (i used to be one) really push jacket bcd's becasue they float people face up on the surface (which is where most dive accidents happen) but in-water trim should be horizontal, and wings give you much better trim. i'd suggest starting with a jacket for the simplicity, but considering a wing later on to help with trim. This is one place, however, you can skimp on expense, or hold out on initially. they're bulky to travel with and relatively simple in design. i'd prefer to have my own reg.

and sinky legs: you may want to try getting open heel fins with booties, since neoprene boots float and will help keep your feet up. different fins also have different levels of buoyancy. just look at scubapro twin jet fins (not suggesting to buy them, i dont' like em) which are offered in positive, neutral and negative bouyancy. i know someone that had the positive twin jets, and floaty feet, and she met someone with the negative ones and sinky feet on a dive boat, they swapped and ta-da, perfect balance for both.

Cheers,

Chris

Hi Folks

 

Sorry if this one has been done to death but trying to get an idea here on the diving side of UW photography - specifically what kit (if any) to buy and also what certification (minimum) level seems to be the informed choice...

 

A bit of background...My girlfriend fiance wife and I have been into snorkelling for quite a while now (I actually learnt to snorkel before I could swim!) and I've been fairly hooked on UW photography since we went to Sharm back in 2005. We recently got married and had our honeymoon at Couples Negril, Jamaica...anyhoo at the couples resorts if you are OW certified the diving is covered under the all inclusive so we decided it would be worth our while to get certified and then take advantage of the free diving.

 

I think it's probably a slippery slope for me but I'm now thinking of getting some kit of my/our own rather than rely on resort/hire equipment that may be high quality but has probably been subject to quite a bit of abuse/wear and tear.

 

I'm pretty happy with my fins (Salvas Caiman full foot, same as Bodyglove snap fins), they may be cheap but they seem to do the job and don't weigh too much for the silly luggage allowances we're getting nowadays.

 

I'm thinking mainly:

Regulator & Octopus etc.

BCD/Wing

Computer...(may have to wait for more budget on that one!)

 

Also I've discovered that my mask, whilst great for snorkelling is possibly not the greatest for diving or for UW photography and as I bought it well over 10 years ago I figure a replacement is not necessarily an extravagance... Was thinking of something like the Scubapro Crystal Vu Dive Mask With Purge (black silicone).

 

So as budget is a concern what is the best bet:

- buy decent 2nd hand or go for new?

- Any makes to go for - equipment reliability is paramount with weight probably second...

- Any makes to avoid - i.e. known for lots of bells, whistles, shiny things and twirly things but poor build quality etc. (i.e. the citroen of dive equipment)

 

Any advice appreciated!

 

Cheers

 

Chud

Chud, I used to teach diving, both in the UK and abroad.

Firstly, you need to look at what sort of diving you are going to do.

*Is it only occasional, say 1 or trips a year.

*OR, are you going to be getting in whenever possible.

*Are you only a holiday diver, or are you intending on UK diving?

Budget is also a consideration for most.

I'll start with what I consider to be the essentials.

Mask, Fins, Snorkel.

The ABC of diving. With these, you will have kit that fits, is hygenic (well, as hygenic as you are) and can snorkel wherever you go.

Mask - Needs to fit you, I would strongly suggest going into a dive shop and trying a few. Try the sniff test for fit. Low volume is good. A black skirt is good for the lack of reflections. I have used loads, Scubapro frameless and Mares X-Vision were a good fit on me, but everyone has adifferent face shape. Personally not keen on purge masks, something else to go wrong.... But, I know lots who swear by them. All depends how good the fit is, which will determine how often it actually needs clearing.

Snorkel - I rarely dive with one, but I own 2 for snorkelling. 1 is as simple as poss, for when I free dive. It is a tube with a mouthpiece. Thats it. No bells or whistles. I also have another for snorkelling, with a purge valve. It's bigger, and breathes easier, plus is drier.

Fins - I love jet fins, they are big, heavy and stiff. Which is great for pushing you along in the UK, but rubbish for travelling. The simple one is a Cressi I found on a wreck dive. The valved one is a beaver. (note - beaver make a large range of dive kit in the UK at a decent price. Not top quality gear but it does the job)

The decision you need to make is partially based upon where you dive. I hate full foot fins, they never fit me rightm, and always rub. I much prefer boots plus open heel fins. You can walk over blistering sand, sharp rocks etc and be fine. Also, fins are generally a bit bigger in the open heel variety, so a bit more thrust. The upshot of using open heel fins is if you do decide to dive in the UK, then you will be wearing boots anyway. They may or may not fit over your drysuit boots if you go down that route. I love jet fins, Mres Quattros are good, so are Cressi rondine and frog. Spring straps are very helpful in rough conditions (make it easier to get fins on/off). I hate split fins, tried them a few times, now refuse to dive in them.

Do not rush into buying a computer. Tables work fine. Also, most of your diving will be guided to start with. You are still responsible for your own dive plan, and following that plan. Far too many divers rush out and buy a computer (or a huge rambo knife) and have no idea what it is telling them.

Computers really help when multilevel diving, but then again so does the wheel. The computer I would buy, if I were to buy another, would be the Suunto Gekko. Simple as, but more than capable.

Also, DO NOT buy an air integrated computer. If one dies, both die. I would have a separate pressure gauge, and maybe even a dual console. Remember, your buddy also has a depth gauge/computer.

Regs - up to you. Most places nowadays have fairly decent hire gear. If their hire gear is in sh1t state, then what sort of state is their compressor in?? I would be more worried about that.

If you want to buy your own, then you need to again consider if you want to dive in the UK (or anywhere else cold for that matter). Some regs are suitable for cold (under 10 degrees) water right out of the box. Others require a cold water conversion kit. Regs I have experience with are;

*Apeks - my favourite. Super reliable, good for cold water out of the box (not the UST/US1 first stages), British made, any UK dive centre can service them

*Mares - very popular abroad, service kits are very cheap (half the price of Apeks, labour charge the same)

*Scubapro - MK2 first stage is a staple of dive centres in warmer climates, takes about 5 minutes to strip down. I personally think most dive centres overtune them, so they freeflow a lot. Thats just in my experience though

All of the above are easily serviced in the UK, with Mares and Scubapro being easily serviced worldwide

Suit - I have 5 suits And that is after stopping diving for a year.

Membrane drysuit - for UK diving

7mm semi dry - Lanzarote in winter

5mm wet suit - red sea or long dives in tropics

3mm wetsuit - tropics

3mm shorty - warm pools when teaching

Again, the dive centre you visit will have suitable suits for local conditions. However, it can pay to have your own hood, gloves, and maybe a thin (2-3mm) neoprene vest. It is easy to get chilly after a few hours, even in 31c water. The layering approach works for wetsuits as well.

BCD's

I love wings. They leave your front uncluttered, let you have nice horizontal trim in the water. Also, when switching from a twinset (doubles in the states) to a single, all I did was swap wing and thread some bands in. When travelling, took a tin (17lb) wing and an ally backplate. Everything was always in the same place. Yes, they do push you forwards a bit at the surface, but that is more noticeable with AL80 tanks. It is certainly manageable.

I used to teach in a jacket BCD. It's what is in the PADI videos/manual, and as I was a PADI instructor, I towed the party line. When guiding, the wing was on.

Again, dive centres carry jacket BCDs that will be fine for their local conditions.

It's your choice. Speak to a local dive centre and try a couple of different setups in the pool.

Buying second hand

Regs - factor in the cost of a full service. For a first stage, plus 2 2nd stages this is around £40 plus parts.

BCD - Go and have a look at it. Blow it up as hard as you can, then leave it for 1/2 hour or so. If there is a noticeable deflation, then it has a leak. Some BCDs ( a lot of wings, plus Buddy) can have the bladder replaced/patched.

Fins - it's a fin. Check for splits/correct operation of buckles

Suit - make sure it fits, and also check that you have full range of movement. Check you can touch the spot between you shoulder blades, and that you can kneel down in it (this shows if it is too tight)

PPB (peak performance buoyancy) is a good course, but like most diving courses it depends on the instructor. A few dives with a guide/experienced diver will show you what is what. The PPB course just sets you a few buoyancy tasks in a short space of time. You would (usually) learn these during normal dives anyway, it's just PPB gives a big headstart.

As for using a camera, wait until you are totally comfortable with buoyancy, watching depth/time/air pressure etc. These things take time, and concentration. If you are glued to a camera, how do you know how much air you have. I have seen far too many 'experienced' divers (lots of cards) ignore their depth/pressure gauge/computer because they were trying for a picture. Usually ignoring my suggestion of a better subject nearby.

As an addendum to all this, I haven't been in the water for nearly 18 months, and I haven't taught in over 2 years. But, I have 2000 logged dives, 250 plus students at all levels from Scuba Diver (half the open water) through to Divemaster. And have dived in the UK (both recreationally and in teaching situations) Canary Islands (ditto) and in a lot of other places in a diving situation (Thailand, Lembeh, Sipadan, Bali, Red Sea, Turkey etc etc.)

I am not bang up to date on the latest and greatest models of dive gear, but things don't change that much.

There are loads of dive centres in Dorset, as well as some fantastic diving, as long as you don't mind the chill. Swanage pier is one of the best 4m dives in the UK. A cracking photo dive.

HTH

Sean

With the gas available in the AL 80 you'll more than likely be diving, and the depths you'll be diving, I seriously doubt the usefulness of a decompression computer. a simple bottom timer would be more than sufficient. I'd much rather spend money on owning a regulator and wing style bc.