SLR or G11 ?

Hello everyone,

I am in great need of advices !

I freedive in the south of France ( Ile de Port-Croc et Ile du Levant ) and I took underwater photography 2 years ago with a G10 and the canon housing.

The G10 is now damaged (water) and I have a coupon to replace it at the store. Bad news is that the G10 is no longer available and I must buy it in this very store.

What I usually shoot :

- from 5m to 25m deep ( fishes, algae ... )

- Other people underwater doing competitive freediving

I will usually put the g10 on continuous shoot and take several shots of my buddies while they dive for depth (we are both moving a lot) or the fishes I am trying to photography.

It looks like the new G11 doesn't feet in the G10 housing, so I need to get a new housing anyway. I have been eying the SLR as they are not so much more expensive that my coupon (500€ coupon) and I am ready to add some more euros. But as a SLR would be a perfectly reasonable choice for a terrestrial camera ( about 800€ for a 500d with a "do all" lens good for beginner ) the price is sky rocketing if I want to take it underwater : it looks like canon is not offering housing for the SLR and I didn't find any under 1200€ from third party.

Is there a "cheap" housing for the 500d or 1000d ?

if 1200€ is the cheapest housing for a 500d, and it is waayyyyyy over my budget, would the difference in quality compared to a G11 would suffice to justify that I borrow money ?

Last question, how expensive is it to put a fish lens to get wide angle ?

Thanks for your advices,

Raph

Sorry to hear about the G10

One issue of course is the different sizes of the dSLR rig and G11 rig, you may just prefer having a smaller set up. It also sounds like you were pretty comfortable with the G10 rig and had results you liked? That could be part of the answer for you....

The G9, 10, 11 all do a real nice job for a point and shoot camera, especially at lower ISO settings. Many people around here have taken amazing UW photos with those cameras. EdMan use to shoot them and the shots were great.

That being said, generally dSLRs will give you better quality, lower shutter lag, etc. (Kind of broad stroke there), but with lenses, housings and the rest it is going to cost alot more than a G11 in a Canon housing.

One thing you may want to consider is seeing if you can find a used G10 on eBay or something, or see if it is in stock in another store and perhaps a friend can use your coupon/give you cash? Or get the dSLR at the store with the coupon and pick up the G10 elsewhere. You can get the dSLR and the G10 that way and still be paying less than trying to house a dSLR. (I have a G9 and dSLRs and carry both on trips, G9 is a good camera to have in my pocket from time-to-time when I do not want to carry a dSLR).

Since you are looking at the 500D Canon, FYI a newer model was announced yesterday (Rebel Ti2 in the States), so you may want to look at that if you go the dSLR route.

i just researched the whole housed G11 thing for a friend and here's my conclusions:

I'd pass up the G11 for the S90 instead. Its almost the full functionality of a G11 (S90 = slightly shorter telephoto, slightly less macro ability, but a superb control ring feature for excellent ergonomics, same sensor, manual exposure, raw capture etc) in a smaller, lighter and cheaper package. The primary catch with the G11 (or G10) is the inability to use wet mount wide angle conversion lenses. This is due to the lens barrel length at telephoto forcing the port to be too long. The $300 ikelite housing for the S90 can take standard 67mm wet mount lenses. For a G11 you need the $1000+ FIX housing with a separate port to do the same.

As far as DSLR vs compact: a DSLR will get way more expensive and be far bulkier. A 'do all' kit lens is a 'do very little worthwhile' underwater. With a DSLR you will always get roped into getting hoards of bits & pieces that you don't realize at first and really add up $$$ (multiple lenses, ports for those lenes, zoom/focus gears, extension rings, large camera bags, etc).

hope that helps. cheers,

chris

i just researched the whole housed G11 thing for a friend and here's my conclusions:

 

I'd pass up the G11 for the S90 instead. Its almost the full functionality of a G11 (S90 = slightly shorter telephoto, slightly less macro ability, but a superb control ring feature for excellent ergonomics, same sensor, manual exposure, raw capture etc) in a smaller, lighter and cheaper package. The primary catch with the G11 (or G10) is the inability to use wet mount wide angle conversion lenses. This is due to the lens barrel length at telephoto forcing the port to be too long. The $300 ikelite housing for the S90 can take standard 67mm wet mount lenses. For a G11 you need the $1000+ FIX housing with a separate port to do the same.

 

As far as DSLR vs compact: a DSLR will get way more expensive and be far bulkier. A 'do all' kit lens is a 'do very little worthwhile' underwater. With a DSLR you will always get roped into getting hoards of bits & pieces that you don't realize at first and really add up $$$ (multiple lenses, ports for those lenes, zoom/focus gears, extension rings, large camera bags, etc).

 

hope that helps. cheers,

 

chris

I just went through the same process and decided on the Canon S90 for about the same reasons. I your case you can get a very small system to handle u/w by buying a Fisheye FIX housing or for much less money the Ikelite housing which is missing one important control link i.e. the front ring. David Hass shots S90 with Ikelite housing and AF35 strobes. That would make a small easy to use system for you.

TheRealDrew, Chris, Leepix thank you for your advices !

You have convinced me that a DSLR is not a good choice for me. Even though I would love to play with the coming 550 from canon.

I will probably get a S90, work with it for a couple more years and most importantly learn to use the manual functions properly. And if I feel like it, in a couple of years when I am more experienced with u/w photo, I can switch to a dSLR.

The $300 ikelite housing for the S90 can take standard 67mm wet mount lenses

I have a friend who bought a lens he can remove and mount underwater (wet lense ?) with a dome like shape. Is it what you call a fisheye lens ? It give great results for pool picture or shooting freediver at sea. It gives a great sens of depth. Do I need to buy an Ikelite or FishEye housing to use such lense or can I use them with the housing provided by Canon (which is cheaper) ?

Who is the manufacturer of the cheapest lens ?

I "might" want to buy a strobe later, what would be the best housing choice with this in mind ? Considering I would not go for the quality strobes and get one that "just work" (or second hand one) . Money is an issue.

Thanks again for your help guys,

Cheers !

Raph

I have a friend who bought a lens he can remove and mount underwater (wet lense ?) with a dome like shape. Is it what you call a fisheye lens ? It give great results for pool picture or shooting freediver at sea. It gives a great sens of depth.

Actually, I found answers to one of my own question on this web site : Underwater Photography Giude : fisheye and wide angle

But the others questions about what type of housing I should chose remains :-) Thought the FishEye Fix seems very expensive compared to the ikelite or the canon one.

raph,

Canon S90 is a great choice if not going the dSLR route.

One correction on the Ikelite housing choice leepix is mistaken on.

It does INDEED have FRONT CONTROL ring access via a slip on gear. Works very slick and if you learn the camera popping in and out choices for what this control ring does is simple.

The smaller REAR control dial is not accessible but is replaced by holding the PRINT (or SHORTCUT button in Canon language) and then pressing left and right buttons to do the same functions.

Do a search here in the forums for photos I posted.

Or read my BLOG post at http://www.ikelite.com/blog/18blog.html

Good luck

dhaas

Or read my BLOG post at http://www.ikelite.com/blog/18blog.html

Thanks David, your photos are great !

I bought the S90 and I am so frustrated not to be able to go to the sea right after work to play with it ( I live in Marseille, close to the sea ).

Maybe you can answer a few questions about the ikelite housing ?

The Ikelite housing is tempting me as I would have the possibility in the future to add a wide angle and/or macro lens and maybe a strobe.

Thought, I am concerned about two points : for this year at least, I will shoot with the bare housing, no strobe, no additional lens ( I had good enough result with my G10 and canon housing last year. I don't have the budget for more than the housing for now, and I am convinced that I have a lot of room for improvement by learning how to properly use my camera before I add more pieces ) I read somewhere that the ikelite housing mask some of the camera flash. I am a bit concerned because it would be my only source of artificial light for a year or two. Can you tell me how it impact the flash effectiveness in clear water ?

I read that there is no spring for the zoom lever, what is your experience while using it ?

The only real draw back would be an inefficient flash. Does the housing come with a diffuser ?

Thanks everyone for the great advices and help !

Cheers !

Raph

PS : I am planning a trip to Okinawa for the freediving world championship in july and need to be well equipped and trained by then !

raph,

Ikelite's Canon S90 housing comes with a DEFLECTOR for bouncing flash to a sensor fired flash (Like the Ikelite AF35 units I shot those pics with) and a DIFFUSER to spread the S90 built in flash a bit.

The larger diameter housing port necessary for the long zoom range will cause a lower right corner shadow closer than about 1.5 feet. Beyond that see for yourself using only the DIFFUSER and built in flash.

The zoom control shaft comes down from the top and does not have a spring return lever. This is only a problem if people forget to return it to center position after zooming so the camera is ready to take a photo.

But I have a better solution as my belief is zooming is not a good technique for UW pics!

I zoom to my desired FOV (frame of view) and then PICK UP the zoom control shaft and SWING the little forks completely out of the way of my S90 zoom. Then I frame and close in on my chosen angle and never worry about the camera not firing

Basically I'm calling it my "3 prime lenses" technique. Zoom to the framing you desire and then shoot like it is a prime lens.

Good luck and I recommend the Canon S90.

It is a great little camera!

dhaas

raph,

 

Canon S90 is a great choice if not going the dSLR route.

 

One correction on the Ikelite housing choice leepix is mistaken on.

 

It does INDEED have FRONT CONTROL ring access via a slip on gear. Works very slick and if you learn the camera popping in and out choices for what this control ring does is simple.

 

The smaller REAR control dial is not accessible but is replaced by holding the PRINT (or SHORTCUT button in Canon language) and then pressing left and right buttons to do the same functions.

 

Do a search here in the forums for photos I posted.

 

Or read my BLOG post at http://www.ikelite.com/blog/18blog.html

 

Good luck

 

dhaas

Tks for the correction David (CRS has set in!) I think your suggestions for shooting technique are sound. KISS principle should be followed for relatively new digi-togs (new word LOL).

I would also like to point out that the Ikelite hsg can take a 67mm WAL adapter lens. The Fisheye FIX hsg does also but only with a expensive adaptor ring! Either of those may work for Raph? BUT IF Raph does get a WAL later, he would definitely want a strobe or 2.

I don't think the depth rating will be of concern depending on how deep you go?!

P.S. Raph I spent three years on Okinawa in the Navy. Where you diving?

My S90 is in the mail woohoo!

Dave - what is that - sample photos from an underwater facial-hair session????

Cheers

James

James,

Long hair and beard guy is old hippie and NEW Canon S90 / Ikelite shooter

Fu-Manchu guy is a Scuba Instructor and my ace regulator tech......

Taken at a monthly Pool Party us mid-westerners have when the snow is flying

dhaas

James,

 

Long hair and beard guy is old hippie and NEW Canon S90 / Ikelite shooter

 

Fu-Manchu guy is a Scuba Instructor and my ace regulator tech......

 

Taken at a monthly Pool Party us mid-westerners have when the snow is flying

 

dhaas

 

Is the video guy playing a harmonica?

How high the snow mama?

14 inches and risin'

Bob

Photo is my best friend and dive buddy of 40 years. He was certified as a commercial diver at the Ocean Corp. in TX many moons ago.

He is using a Nemrod Meteor vintage regulator (we collect 1960+ era gear) and with the size of that 2nd stage diaphragm it could give a modern reg a run for the money

Also note his homemade Canon SF100 video housing. Good to 150'+ and likely about $100.00 in parts. He also built his own Canon Rebel T1i (500D) housing.....

The other B&W photo is a guy training for "tech diving" (don't get me started on that!) shot with my Canon S90's "Nostalgic" mode.

Both available light, maybe ISO 500 or so and Ikelite W20 lens.

We may be old but have been around the industry a long time

To most, we still don't know anything LOL.......

dhaas

He is using a Nemrod Meteor vintage regulator (we collect 1960+ era gear) and with the size of that 2nd stage diaphragm it could give a modern reg a run for the money

 

We may be old but have been around the industry a long time

 

dhaas

 

Ha! David, you ain't that old. I retired my vintage '67 Dacor regulator (aka boat anchor) to Fiji years ago.

Thanks for sharing your images and advice.

Bob

Thanks everyone, the photos look good !

But one question remain for me : is the internal flash usable with the Ikelite housing ? It would me my only flash for at least a year or two, and I dive often.

Cheers,

Raph

Or this, splash date March:

Canon S90 in FIX90 housing. Inon UFL165AD-FE lens shown mounted with custom AD adapter on FIX kit port adapter. Optional Sekonic Marine Meter or focus light or nothing. Oceanic strobe arm and grip handle on custom tray. Not shown, single or dual Inon D2000 strobe(s) and Inon 100WAL plus dome and Inon UCL165AD macro lenses.

Haha, I like the way you took the smallest housing on the market and decked it out w/ vintage equipment! Thus making it bigger than my Seacam MkIII setup! :-)

Cheers

James

Haha, I like the way you took the smallest housing on the market and decked it out w/ vintage equipment! Thus making it bigger than my Seacam MkIII setup! :-) Cheers

James

Actually, the tray and arm are smaller than the UCLS type and it weighs hardly nothing and it folds up to fit in a small case without tools. The Sekonic Meter as I said, is optional. The Nikonos III that was on the tray is about the same size and weight as the S90/FIX and the tray is a full two inches shorter and nearly a half inch more narrow yet leaving so little room that if I use gloves I will need to make the tray wider by a full two inches. The Oceanic arm also removes and accepts a UCLS handle in hole number two. It is completely modular in that in fact, both "vintage" handles can be replaced by one or NONE UCLS handles. Good Grief.

Folded for travel to dive site:

UCLS handle installed for dual D/S2000:

Single handle usage with single strobe:

System broken down, camera still on QR sub-tray ready for action hand held:

Ikelite compact tray used for scale only, which is much heavier BTW. The camera tray also has a QR sub-tray that detaches from the main tray in a split second so the camera can be used without a tray for amphibious action. The little black arm can mount on the left handle, mount to the right side of tray and then fold under like a pocket knife or be removed completely for mounting either a meter, a light or other accessory. Your Seacam is thus considerably larger and heavier. Seriously whatever .

And one more outfitted for dual Inon S/D2000 strobes, the "vintage" pistol grip handle is extremely comfortable and sure grip:

Hey, small is in, try traveling with that Seacam and a single carry on that cannot be any fun, no wonder, must be hard work. And on the subject of small, it is also smaller and lighter than the Ikelite housed unit on the AF35 tray and certainly smaller than any G10/G11 rig of any sort, just being real, little is the new big.

The OP asked about a fisheye lens, I mounted one, obviously, it comes off with a simple twist for use without or with something different.