HDV formats PC > Mac test

I'm planning to send HDV files to a stock footage house and I want to make sure that my formats are compatible. Some of my archive is 1080i50 and some is 1080i60. The stock footage house is Mac based and they convert everything to ProRes422HQ. I want to make sure that everything I send can be opened on the Mac, and that there is minimal quality loss.

I've put some 2-second long test 1080i50 files together in a zip file at http://cdn.bubblevision.com/HDV-format-test.zip

1. MPEG2-original-from-Vegas-no-recompression.m2t

Most of my files will be in this format. Captured from tape with HDVSplit then trimmed to length and smart-rendered (no recompression) in Sony Vegas Pro 8. Gets read in Vegas by the Sony HDV codec.

2. MPEG2-processed-with-MPEG2Repair-no-recompression.m2t

A small percentage will be like this. They are as the first format but have been run through MPEG2Repair to fix an error where the file in Vegas was hanging on the last frame. Gets read in Vegas by the MainConcept MPEG2 codec.

3. Cineform3point3-from-Vegas.avi

I might render to this for files that I need to colour correct before sending. To read Cineform on a Mac you would need to install the free Neo Player from http://estore.cineform.com/neoplayer.aspx.

4. Motion-JPEG-B-75percent.mov

Quicktime Motion JPEG B rendered from Vegas at 75% quality. I might use this instead of Cineform for files that need colour correcting (and it's also the format that royalty-free sites like pond5 and iStock require).

I compared these files by lining them up underneath each other on different tracks in Vegas and muting tracks at best preview settings to look for differences. Basically I could barely see any difference between them.

If anyone has FCP and/or MPEG Streamclip on a Mac could they please let me know if all of the files open and play correctly, and if you notice any quality loss with any of them?

Thanks!

Nick most of the differences will come once you toss the clips in different programs for post work like AEFX, Color etc. Straight conversion and recompression, 1st generation will not have a noticeable effect. Try 3-5 generations and you'll see the deterioration.

Nick

To add to what Drew mentioned, ran some tests for you from a quick Mac workflow look

1. MPEG2-original-from-Vegas-no-recompression.m2t

Converted easily in MPEG Streamclip, though had a timecode break, which is quickly fixed by MPEG Streamclip

Could not be bought into Final Cut directly

2. MPEG2-processed-with-MPEG2Repair-no-recompression.m2t

Converted easily in MPEG Streamclip and no timecode break

Could not be bought into Final Cut directly

3. Cineform3point3-from-Vegas.avi

Converted by MPEG Streamclip, though has a 4:3 Ratio

Missing Codec in Final Cut

4. Motion-JPEG-B-75percent.mov

Imported straight into Final Cut

I was working on an older version of Final Cut and can test on the newer version of Final Cut if you like. All the MPEG Streamclip conversions were able to be done to ProRes directly, set it on the highest quality and was quick to do. Also the AVI file was a bit inconsistent and sometimes it would convert, sometimes not. Generally I would think you would want to avoid AVI from what I am seeing, though in the past I have worked with AVI files, it is just that the other formats seemed easier to deal with/stable in converting, at least on the system I am testing on. (I did not use the Cineform convertor to look at the AVI, just worked with a basic system for the most part, install of Final Cut 6 and the MPEG Streamclip download)

If you want I could run them out to a DVD or a file of sometype to review.

Thanks Drew. I really appreciate your help.

I'm thinking that the Cineform AVI is probably only going to be a reliable format if that Neo Player decoder is installed.

Or I might ramp up the quality in Motion JPEG from 75% to 990% or something and use that.

If you don't mind, could you write out a ProRes422HQ clip from each and let me know if you see any quality difference? You can judge this by aligning the clips in a column on different tracks in FCP and muting higher tracks (with preview settings on best). At least that's how I compare formats in Vegas on a PC.

It might be useful to get the ProRes422HQ clips back at some point to take at look at here but hang fire for now until I've got some more feedback. Cheers again

Nick, downloaded ZIP and opened it. All that came thru was a 2 sec file called "Motion-JPEG-B-75percent.mov" and a file called "Cineform3point3-from-Vegas.avi" the other two files were corrupted. I was able to view the mov file but nothing else so no comparison possible. If it is worth anything the mov file look good.

Mike

If you don't mind, could you write out a ProRes422HQ clip from each and let me know if you see any quality difference? You can judge this by aligning the clips in a column on different tracks in FCP and muting higher tracks (with preview settings on best). At least that's how I compare formats in Vegas on a PC.

Nick to me the m2t looked better to me (subject to the things about the translations above (4:3 issue) on the avi). If you like I can output the three streams to HDV for you to look at. Couple of screen shots to look at, JPEG so maybe not as clear as what I am seeing.