Red Sea online competition

Hi all,

The online competition has begun one month ago.

The second month (of 5) has been launched now.

You should participate and you might win your ticket to the Red Sea shoot-out in November.

Here's the link: http://www.eilatredsea.com/?CategoryID=363...D=47&Page=1

Good luck,

Michel

Hi all,

The online competition has begun one month ago.

The second month (of 5) has been launched now.

You should participate and you might win your ticket to the Red Sea shoot-out in November.

Here's the link: http://www.eilatredsea.com/?CategoryID=363...D=47&Page=1

Good luck,

Michel

There is something I don´t understand: for this free competition these are the usage rights:

"Submission to this competition grants the Epson Red Sea with the right of copying and using your photos for any media coverage of the Epson Red Sea Competition, including the Epson Red Sea Competition Album, Epson Red Sea partners and Epson Red Sea affiliates, only for the purpose of promoting the competition and only for two years following submission. You will receive full credits as the photographer. Your images will not be used for any commercial purpose other than promoting the Epson Red Sea competition without your prior agreement."

Which I find all right. But then if I want to enter the paying online competitions I have to accept these:

"By registering to the competition, the participant agrees that images taken during the competition or submitted to various categories can be reproduced and used for media coverage. This includes Israeli and International media, as well as the press, TV, internet and any other media. Competition organizers reserve the right to produce photograph albums of the competition, calendars (for resale or give away) and promotional materials as found useful by the organizers of the competition.

Use of images as described above will require no additional written or verbal permissions from the photographer."

Which I do not think is fair having to pay AND giving away rights just for ENTERING.

There is something I don´t understand: for this free competition these are the usage rights:

 

"Submission to this competition grants the Epson Red Sea with the right of copying and using your photos for any media coverage of the Epson Red Sea Competition, including the Epson Red Sea Competition Album, Epson Red Sea partners and Epson Red Sea affiliates, only for the purpose of promoting the competition and only for two years following submission. You will receive full credits as the photographer. Your images will not be used for any commercial purpose other than promoting the Epson Red Sea competition without your prior agreement."

 

Which I find all right. But then if I want to enter the paying online competitions I have to accept these:

 

"By registering to the competition, the participant agrees that images taken during the competition or submitted to various categories can be reproduced and used for media coverage. This includes Israeli and International media, as well as the press, TV, internet and any other media. Competition organizers reserve the right to produce photograph albums of the competition, calendars (for resale or give away) and promotional materials as found useful by the organizers of the competition.

Use of images as described above will require no additional written or verbal permissions from the photographer."

 

Which I do not think is fair having to pay AND giving away rights just for ENTERING.

If I have understood things correctly:-

1. Submission to the online competition assigns the competition organisers photographer-friendly use rights, restricted in their duration and scope.

2. Entering the shoot-out itself means the organisers take very broad rights; all images (not just winners), for an unspecified time limit (assume "forever") and for whatever purpose they see fit (including misrepresentation or selling a license to reproduce, for example).

If correct, point 2 above would not be considered photographer-friendly when measured against the Pro-Imaging Competition Rights test and any potential entrant should consider carefully if the rights assigned to the organisers in exchange for entering are suitable for endorsement.

It may not be the intention to grab image use rights.......but the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Sure does not sound like a good road to travel down.

Hello guys,

First of all many worlwide known uw photographers and also less known photographers have already won this competition and got fabulous prizes no one got any problem like the ones you imagined.

I'd also suggest you to check out the competition's prizes. They are huge and much bigger than any existing uw photo in the world.

Prizes like $10,000 together with 3 diving weeks in PNG. $3000, others trips to PNG, Red Sea, Cocos Islands, $5000 value on Seacam gear and much more.

You still can take your chance even if you can't get at the shoot-out.

Cheers,

Michel

Hello guys,

First of all many worlwide known uw photographers and also less known photographers have already won this competition and got fabulous prizes no one got any problem like the ones you imagined.

I'd also suggest you to check out the competition's prizes. They are huge and much bigger than any existing uw photo in the world.

Prizes like $10,000 together with 3 diving weeks in PNG. $3000, others trips to PNG, Red Sea, Cocos Islands, $5000 value on Seacam gear and much more.

You still can take your chance even if you can't get at the shoot-out.

Cheers,

Michel

Prizes are one thing, but the organisers would appear to grab the rights for every image shot.....and that is a prize that lasts for 70 years after the photographer dies (at least that's UK - Israel is a Berne Convention signatory and its copyright laws - for good or bad - are based on the British example)..... such wide ranging rights would include commercially licensing the images to anyone on the planet for that time. Competitions have been used by many to harvest commercial rights from photographers and on the face of it, this competition is doing just that.

If the organisers genuinely do not seek to grab image use rights then for the sake of everyone they must be changed (as per Pro-Imaging Bill of Rights).

Why? One simple reason; Other photo competition organisers look to events like the Epson Red Sea event and think that terms that grab rights to images are "industry standard" and acceptable to the photographic community. They are, if you like, a benchmark. If others see rights grabbing competition terms and conditions, they copy the idea/style and yet another "competition" is launched to grab rights.....and so it goes on.

Based on this, I would urge the organsiers to change the terms that reflect what reproduction/use rights they need to publicize the competition and nothing more (as per the link above). As it stands the terms and conditions of entry indicate the organisers do indeed see good reasons to take the rights to all the images......

And as already stated; it may not be the intention to grab rights, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

not cool

OK, I understand your point of view.

I can share with you my own experience.

I have participated to the competition for a couple years and I could see my pictures in photo articles telling about the competition and on the competition's website, like any other competition does, and that's just fine with me.

I suppose you know Keri Wilks, Arturo Telle and many other of the competition happy winners. They never had to complain about anything.

I personally think this competition is making a great honor to UW photography by offering so many and huge prizes as never seen anywhere else.

Moreover, David Pilosof, competition organizer, used to be one of the most famous UW photographer many years ago and he knows everything about pictures and rights. He's not interested to grab in any way your pictures, but just promote this fabulous festival.

So take your chance, you still can win $10,000 along with 3 weeks in Papua New Guinea and some more other great prizes

Good luck!

Michel

OK, I understand your point of view.

I can share with you my own experience.

I have participated to the competition for a couple years and I could see my pictures in photo articles telling about the competition and on the competition's website, like any other competition does, and that's just fine with me.

I suppose you know Keri Wilks, Arturo Telle and many other of the competition happy winners. They never had to complain about anything.

I personally think this competition is making a great honor to UW photography by offering so many and huge prizes as never seen anywhere else.

Moreover, David Pilosof, competition organizer, used to be one of the most famous UW photographer many years ago and he knows everything about pictures and rights. He's not interested to grab in any way your pictures, but just promote this fabulous festival.

 

Michel

Michel,

If David wants use rights to promote his festival (nothing wrong in that) then why do the terms and conditions of entry take all rights?. It's fine to claim one thing on an internet forum, but the reality is the terms that every entrant has to sign up to, on the face of it, grab the rights to all images taken.

Terms taking excessive rights from the photographer always beg the question "Why?". Does one of the sponsors want those rights and would not be so supportive without the opportunity to use the images for whatever purpose? Potential uses by the sponsor might include advertising products and services outside of the competition and whilst they have need for such images, feel that they should not have to buy licenses? Perhaps they think they can sub-license the images to cover the cost of their sponsorship? Who knows? One thing that is certain; rights to use images have a value. Otherwise, rights grabbing terms would have never appeared.

Maybe the competition winners (or indeed all entrants) have no cause to complain, but will that hold true for the duration of the copyright that exists upon them? Whilst David's intentions may be honorable and not to grab rights, who knows what the future holds? Will David maintain control over the competition for the long term? For the sake of every photographer - entrant or otherwise - I call upon David to rewrite the conditions of entry as per the Pro-Imaging Rights On terms. If this is not possible then perhaps an explanation/correction as to the facts would be forthcoming.

As it stands, photographers should ask themselves if it's OK to endorse a "competition" that grabs valuable commercial rights from every entrant and make their own mind up. We all have a choice to enter, or not. For what it's worth I believe every photographer should decline to endorse rights grabbing competitions - but that is my own personal view.

As an attempt to pour some oil on these troubled waters, I would suspect that the competition and its sponsors do NOT wish to use the images for anything other than promoting the competition. The Eilat competition has always been about celebrating great UW photos and photographers. I'd suggest that the copyright-grab in the rules is there as an error and will hopefully be updated.

Alex

As an attempt to pour some oil on these troubled waters, I would suspect that the competition and its sponsors do NOT wish to use the images for anything other than promoting the competition. The Eilat competition has always been about celebrating great UW photos and photographers. I'd suggest that the copyright-grab in the rules is there as an error and will hopefully be updated.

Alex

Agreed......I too suspect the intentions of the competition and organisers are honorable, but that's not what the terms of entry state.........as it stands, it reads as if photographers rights are indeed grabbed.

It may not be the case, but does need a reword to make it clear what rights are assigned.

I have just dropped David a PM to see if he will answer any questions. Hopefully he get my message and will chime in with the info you all need. I've met him a few times at festivals and he seems a decent enough character (I know these were not personal comments however it does help to have a nice bloke as organiser )

Dive safe

DeanB

Hi all,

Thank you for your feesbacks.

I've reread the competition's rules and I really haven't seen anything disturbing there.

Could you please tell where are the problematic words or the words that are missing and I promise to forward it to David Pilosof, the organiser.

If anything needs to be modified or improved, he will do it for sure.

You may already participate to the online competition with low res pics and you may win your ticket to the next Red Sea shoot-out. http://www.eilatredsea.com/?CategoryID=363...D=47&Page=1

Kindest regards,

Michel

Hi all,

 

Thank you for your feesbacks.

I've reread the competition's rules and I really haven't seen anything disturbing there.

Could you please tell where are the problematic words or the words that are missing and I promise to forward it to David Pilosof, the organiser.

If anything needs to be modified or improved, he will do it for sure.

You may already participate to the online competition with low res pics and you may win your ticket to the next Red Sea shoot-out. http://www.eilatredsea.com/?CategoryID=363...D=47&Page=1

 

Kindest regards,

 

Michel

Hi Michel. More than willing to assist with guidance on this.

Here goes:-

1. Credits and moral rights; A statement to the effect of "The photographer will be credited" is required.

2. A time limit for use rights is required. Between 2 & 5 years after each event is acceptable.

3. Statement to the effect of "Copyright is retained by photographer" is required.

4. A statement restricting image use for the purposes of promoting current and future competitions (subject to 2. above) & judging of the competition is required. The current statement of "as found useful by the organizers" is ambiguious.

5. "Non-exclusive use" statement is required.

Hope this helps. Please let me know if you need any further assistance - by all means drop me a PM if required.

Hi all,

 

Thank you for your feesbacks.

I've reread the competition's rules and I really haven't seen anything disturbing there.

Could you please tell where are the problematic words or the words that are missing and I promise to forward it to David Pilosof, the organiser.

If anything needs to be modified or improved, he will do it for sure.

You may already participate to the online competition with low res pics and you may win your ticket to the next Red Sea shoot-out. http://www.eilatredsea.com/?CategoryID=363...D=47&Page=1

 

Kindest regards,

 

Michel

All they have to do is apply the "Epson Eilat Red Sea Rules fo photographer of the year 2010" at the bottom of:

http://www.eilatredsea.com/?CategoryID=364&ArticleID=181

to the rest of their competitions. Right now the rest of the competitions have the rights grab at the bottom of:

http://www.eilatredsea.com/?CategoryID=372...D=186&sng=1

Why do they have different rights grabs for different contests is something I don´t find a reason for. Specially when the paying-to-enter competitions are much worse than the free-to-enter one.

I would like to enter but I will not if this stays unchanged (which is fine, I understand that anyone can organize a contest the way they want).

All they have to do is apply the "Epson Eilat Red Sea Rules fo photographer of the year 2010" at the bottom of:

http://www.eilatredsea.com/?CategoryID=364&ArticleID=181

to the rest of their competitions.

The above terms (at the bottom of the page link) are exemplary and could be held up as an example of "best practice" with respect to photographers rights........ to apply these terms would indeed remove the entire matter from debate.