The beauty and the ugly..all in one hour

I spent part of Sunday 'snorkeling' in a pool with my camera equipment. The goal was to learn about taking photographs of children underwater. The training was to be a first step for trying to offer professional services to swimming lesson classes and teams in my area for underwater photo's and video. I had swimming team pictures as child and my children had team pictures for their various sports in the past. I have seen wonderful underwater portraits at this site and thought.. why not try?

It all started so lovely and wonderful. I waded into the shallow pool with my large equipment. There were many children and some adults at the indoor pool. I was approached by some children from their curiosity about me and the gear. I offered pictures, their parents close at hand and agreeing to allow it. So we started dropping below the surface, posing and taking pictures. We had such fun. As time passed, more children approached and had pictures taken. Truly a wonderful time. One mother was willing to have her picture taken with her children so we had a group underwater photo as well.

After all the children present that wanted a photo had one or more, I left the pool and sat beside it watching them play and enjoying the event....talking to one of the mothers about her boy. He followed me all over the pool and I must have taken 20 pictures of him. He wanted to be in them all.

Then an administrator of the pool arrived and asked me to the office for a chat. He asked me about what I was doing there. I told him of my previous request for permission to take photo's, which was granted a few weeks ago. I also talked of the mothers liking the pictures of their children on Mother's day. He told me that the rules did not allow photographs and I had to stop, which I agreed to do. Then he went on to talk of some that complained about the photo's being taken. Then he went on further to imply that a 50+ age male alone in a pool taking photo's of children could be viewed as not an acceptable activity. His implication was clear enough, he was careful in his words but they approached an accusation.

In one aftn, in less than one hour...to see the beauty and ugliness of mankind arise and compete. I have no other venue to share it and vent so I come here.

Has our society become so jaded that the beauty of children cannot be shared without being judged?

I could talk of approvals from each parent, which I am sure I did not get. I started with them but as children came to me...I did not search out their parents. I asked for no signatures as there is no commercial intent.

One parent asked me to delete his children's photos, which I did after showing them to him. He said they were wonderful. I offered to share them with him...he just wanted them deleted. So I deleted them. His children were the most wonderful photo's of the day... and they are lost.

Need we be so afraid of the dark side that we cannot bask in the sun?

I went looking for beauty and knowledge and found both but also found the darkness and ugliness that exists.

I ask your patience with my venting as no one understands the beauty of it more than those here. So then you will also understand the pain of searching for beauty and having implied accusation of the horrible.

A sad although cautious reflection on today's society... And seeing you had permission from the owners and parents from the very start then even more so. Maybe an advert pinned up informing parents of your intentions would have helped. A friend told me about his elderly father who stopped to help a toddler who had fallen off a swing only to be threatened by her father for "touching his daughter" he was called all sorts of names, this shook the old man, he has lots of grand kids and was only trying to help.

I'm sure there are a few shooters on here who may take pics of kids in pools as part of their job and may offer some advice.

Dive safe

DeanB

I spent part of Sunday 'snorkeling' in a pool with my camera equipment. The goal was to learn about taking photographs of children underwater. The training was to be a first step for trying to offer professional services to swimming lesson classes and teams in my area for underwater photo's and video. I had swimming team pictures as child and my children had team pictures for their various sports in the past. I have seen wonderful underwater portraits at this site and thought.. why not try?

 

It all started so lovely and wonderful. I waded into the shallow pool with my large equipment. There were many children and some adults at the indoor pool. I was approached by some children from their curiosity about me and the gear. I offered pictures, their parents close at hand and agreeing to allow it. So we started dropping below the surface, posing and taking pictures. We had such fun. As time passed, more children approached and had pictures taken. Truly a wonderful time. One mother was willing to have her picture taken with her children so we had a group underwater photo as well.

 

After all the children present that wanted a photo had one or more, I left the pool and sat beside it watching them play and enjoying the event....talking to one of the mothers about her boy. He followed me all over the pool and I must have taken 20 pictures of him. He wanted to be in them all.

 

Then an administrator of the pool arrived and asked me to the office for a chat. He asked me about what I was doing there. I told him of my previous request for permission to take photo's, which was granted a few weeks ago. I also talked of the mothers liking the pictures of their children on Mother's day. He told me that the rules did not allow photographs and I had to stop, which I agreed to do. Then he went on to talk of some that complained about the photo's being taken. Then he went on further to imply that a 50+ age male alone in a pool taking photo's of children could be viewed as not an acceptable activity. His implication was clear enough, he was careful in his words but they approached an accusation.

 

In one aftn, in less than one hour...to see the beauty and ugliness of mankind arise and compete. I have no other venue to share it and vent so I come here.

 

Has our society become so jaded that the beauty of children cannot be shared without being judged?

 

I could talk of approvals from each parent, which I am sure I did not get. I started with them but as children came to me...I did not search out their parents. I asked for no signatures as there is no commercial intent.

One parent asked me to delete his children's photos, which I did after showing them to him. He said they were wonderful. I offered to share them with him...he just wanted them deleted. So I deleted them. His children were the most wonderful photo's of the day... and they are lost.

Need we be so afraid of the dark side that we cannot bask in the sun?

 

I went looking for beauty and knowledge and found both but also found the darkness and ugliness that exists.

I ask your patience with my venting as no one understands the beauty of it more than those here. So then you will also understand the pain of searching for beauty and having implied accusation of the horrible.

Sad how messed up it's all become.

Having said that, I think one would have to approach this in a private pool, have a chaperone, written consents even if no commercial intent, and publishing of images to password protected galleries accessible only by the client.

Just the reality of the messed up world we live in.

Really sad, Dave.

Like many of us I have kids and would do all I could to help any child in difficulties. But, sadly, in the back of my mind is always the thought that some total saddo might see me as some weird old geezer.

What a screwed up world it has become. But then maybe it always has been.

Dive anyone? It all seems to make more sense down there......

I think one would have to approach this in a private pool, have a chaperone, written consents even if no commercial intent, and publishing of images to password protected galleries accessible only by the client.

It was in a private club, with parents for chaperones all around, with all images in a password protected gallery accessible only to the parents present on that day that wanted access. That is why I did not share any of the pics with this thread.

But you are quite correct, its messed up.

I am with TimG...diving is where it all makes sense.

Its such a shame.

I had a similar problem. A friend of mine is a high diver and after messing around on the diving boards we had the idea of shooting with my little ixus and housing from water level. So we went to the local high diving pool where we started shooting some great shots, him coming towards me, flipping and spinning, almost shot directly below. We were the only ones there on that evening. The pool was empty. The pool attendant didnt mind and loved the shots until some jobsworth came up asked a million questions as to what we were doing and why we would want to do that...

After much 'conversation' with jobsworth, we were asked to leave immediately and delete every photo we had taken - even after showing him every one was of my friend! He even liked the images but would not let us keep even one. Not only was there no threat of us taking images of young children (as there werent any even in the pool) and it was fairly obvious of our intent :2 25yr old guys mucking about, having fun and getting some fun images, but jobsworth kept saying its company/pool policy.

What day and age do we live in where we cant have fun anymore in case we offend/threaten people that arent even there!?

Olly

That is truly disappointing Dave. People fear what they don’t understand and it’s probably the first time many of those folks have seen someone with a rig like yours in their pool. It just took one fearful person to complain and the bureaucracy kicked in. I think you need to focus on all the kids who had fun and the parents who enjoyed the opportunity you provided. If you want to do more of this maybe you need to get yourself a big sign and charge for it with the appropriate releases as was suggested. You might be able to block out a time in a local pool before or after their normal hours. You could hire a clown and make it a party.

Here is another idea, our local dive shop does “bubble parties” for youngsters in town. It’s very popular for kid’s birthdays. They invite all their friends and have a great time with cake then the shop’s instructors put them in the pool with tanks on for their first taste of scuba. Most of the time the kids are around 12 or so. The shop doesn’t make much money but they figure they’re planting the seed for future divers. Very popular for divers who want to get their children a safe non threatening introduction to this crazy passion we have. Anyway, it’s a great place to take pictures. Probably not the age group you we’re working with but at least they would appreciate your efforts and really cherish the images. You might want to check with your local shops and see if they do something similar.

I really appreciate the effort it must take to work with mothers and fathers of young ones when trying to make some nice images of them. The folks like Abi who do it for a living have my outmost respect. I’ll stick with fish, not a single one has ever complained that I made them look fat.

Don’t let it get you down,

Cheers,

Steve

Its such a shame.

 

I had a similar problem. A friend of mine is a high diver and after messing around on the diving boards we had the idea of shooting with my little ixus and housing from water level. So we went to the local high diving pool where we started shooting some great shots, him coming towards me, flipping and spinning, almost shot directly below. We were the only ones there on that evening. The pool was empty. The pool attendant didnt mind and loved the shots until some jobsworth came up asked a million questions as to what we were doing and why we would want to do that...

 

After much 'conversation' with jobsworth, we were asked to leave immediately and delete every photo we had taken - even after showing him every one was of my friend! He even liked the images but would not let us keep even one. Not only was there no threat of us taking images of young children (as there werent any even in the pool) and it was fairly obvious of our intent :2 25yr old guys mucking about, having fun and getting some fun images, but jobsworth kept saying its company/pool policy.

 

What day and age do we live in where we cant have fun anymore in case we offend/threaten people that arent even there!?

 

Olly

why did you delete the images? why not just leave? I mean. i understand if its a parent asking you to delete the images of their kid. but if you and your mate were just mucking about with each other, there is no reason to delete the images. even the the jobsworth called the police, there is no grounds for you to have to delete your work.

After much 'conversation' with jobsworth, we were asked to leave immediately and delete every photo we had taken - even after showing him every one was of my friend! He even liked the images but would not let us keep even one.

Olly

I hope you went home and promptly recovered all of your deleted images from your memory card. Doing so would be trivially easy.

-Brad

Well, I've been shooting babies in a pool recently, organised by the swimming instructor. Totally up front photo sessions with the agreement of the pool (council). Many parents simply want a momento of their child learning to swim at a very young age. FWIW though I DO have a CRB (Criminal Records Bureau certification provided by the UK authorities for a fee) and I am very careful about the images and where they go. But I see NO problem in such photography and it really annoys me that there is so much stupidity associated with pictures of children these days. We will end up with few records of childhoods it we pander to the idiots.

But to get back to the original post, I'd say that if you are going to undertake such photography it is essential to be totally up front about it - have paperwork with your full details on it and be organised for permissions and consents, and make sure that everyone knows what is going on, in my case the instructor hires the shallow pool for the photo session - and in all honesty its probably a lot easier to do such photography on a commercial basis (because everyone appreciates that it is making money!) than for 'fun'. And I'm afraid that if anyone 'implied' any impropriety to me, they'd be told to back off in no uncertain terms!

It's no different here in Australia either. Last year my son was taking swimming lesson at a local beach and a photographer from the local newspaper turned up and asked if he could take a couple of photos for the paper. I happily gave permission as did two other perants out of a class of 10 students. Anyway he waited until the lesson finshed and my son and the two other kids then did some posed shoots for him. My son didn't really understand what it was about until two days later his photo was in the paper and boy was he happy. That morning at swiming lessons the three kids were so excited - but the other seven were unhappy and the parents of those children complained to the swimming instructor that it was unfair that their kids had missed out - go figure!!! they were asked permission and refused and then had the nerve to complain.

But even taking family photos on our local beaches is becoming a problem with people complaining to life guards etc (bearing in mind they have no lawfull authority to stop you taking photos) - yet if a female does it it doesn't seem to be an issue.

A number of our schools wont let you take photos of your kids at school events and then try and force you to buy prints from their prefered pro photographer - however, the conspicarcy theorist in me believes this is more a money making / grabbing by the school and photographer more than trying to protect the kids.

I think people should worry more about the ones they can't see taking the photo rather than the ones doing it in the open.

Karl

I often take photos at our local pool but only in closed (private) swimming sessions which are normally reserved for the local dive club or our local Sea Cadets unit (which CJ belongs to). Even so, I have to sign a permission document declaring who I am photographing and for what purpose.

I do know that I would not be allowed to take a camera into a public swimming session, even if I were only shooting my son. But that's life in our screwed up, risk adverse society.

Its interesting to note that in many public 'arenas' in the UK, using a mobile phone equipped with a camera is becoming increasingly disallowed...

Even so, I have to sign a permission document declaring who I am photographing and for what purpose.

This seems fair enough since you are on private property and I happily sign these (might even be helpful, if the pool ever need images they know who to ask!). Its the rule-bound jobsworths who are the real problem in my experience.