Questions on G11 and which strobes to buy

Hello everyone,

I've been reading these forums this past week and I decided to buy the Canon G11. I've been using other Canon P&S's for the past 4 years with the oem houseing and a small Sea & Sea strobe, but now I'm ready to move up and take my hobby to the next level.

After reading the Point & Shoot out on Backscatter, http://www.backscatter.com/learn/article/article.php?ID=80 I took their suggestions as well, but it was a tough decision between the Canon G11 and S90. Both excellent cameras but decided on the G11 for now and maybe the S90 later as well.

So I'm going to buy the Fisheye Fix G11 housing mostly because of the size factor. Although I'm a little disappointed that I can not change lenses underwater, but I'll get used to it. Now the question is which strobes to buy. The Inon Z240 is what the article suggests, but the Inon D-2000 looks really nice as well. I was thinking to buy 1 strobe for now, then add a 2nd strobe later. Most importantly is size and traveling light for now as I'm living in Arizona and I have to fly to all my dive destination. Although I'm planning on moving to Florida within 1 to 2 years so then perhaps I can move up to a SLR later.

I was also thinking of buying the Fisheye UWL-04 wide lens as well as the Fisheye element flip macro lens. Anyone else here using this macro lens? Is this a good option for this housing?

Also what is the best tray and arms to buy, seems like a lot of divers on this board like the ULCS brand?

I've also been entertaining the idea of having my G11 and perhaps one of those Flip HD's video cameras on the same tray arm, perhaps 1 strobe for photos and 1 video light for movies. I hate the fact the G11 doesn't have HD video on it but hopefully that feature will come about in a compact size in the next year or two.

What are you guys thoughts on a setup like that? Or is the video on the G11 pretty good underwater?

Thanks

Hi vortexed and congrats to your wise decision about the G11.

Welcome to the world of not being able to change lenses underwater, when you gear up to a DSLR you will be already used to that....

In any case that's only true with the FIX housing as my Patima housing has a 67mm tread on the wide angle port and will accept all 67mm wetlenses. There is a austrian company building a slip-over 67mm adapter for the Patima zoom port to expand the possibilies of possible lenses. So you might think about your decision for the FIX housing and go with the Patima.

If the higher price of the Z-240 over the D-2000 is it worth, well it's you to decide as the difference are 4 GN's and a electrical bulkhead. The D-2000 -as the Z-240 too- work perfectly as optical triggered slave strobes, so there is no need for a electrical connection. If weight is a serious concern, get a S-2000 (295g/10.4oz) as he weights almost the half of a D-2000 (544g/19.2oz) but you have some functions (External Auto) less and without a diffuser a slight oval beam.

ULCS are excellent arms and their fame don't come from nowhere... They use a o-ring on the ball to fine-tune the holding power, but when you loose the o-ring the turn as the others. Another nice feature of ULCS is that they produce a incredible amount of special pieces to realize every imaginable connection.

The flip underwater housing is only to 30' deep:

Designed to protect 2nd Generation Flip Ultra and Flip UltraHD Camcorders under water to depths of 30 feet

I had a client diving with the Go Pro Hero and the video turned out nice, but far away from HD Quality, but she's so small, to mount her on the stobe arm and let her always record. The Video from the G11 is of good quality, but to get real nice HD Video you should get a HD video cam.

Chris

Welcome to the world of not being able to change lenses underwater, when you gear up to a DSLR you will be already used to that....

In any case that's only true with the FIX housing as my Patima housing has a 67mm tread on the wide angle port and will accept all 67mm wetlenses. There is a austrian company building a slip-over 67mm adapter for the Patima zoom port to expand the possibilies of possible lenses. So you might think about your decision for the FIX housing and go with the Patima.

 

If the higher price of the Z-240 over the D-2000 is it worth, well it's you to decide as the difference are 4 GN's and a electrical bulkhead. The D-2000 -as the Z-240 too- work perfectly as optical triggered slave strobes, so there is no need for a electrical connection. If weight is a serious concern, get a S-2000 (295g/10.4oz) as he weights almost the half of a D-2000 (544g/19.2oz) but you have some functions (External Auto) less and without a diffuser a slight oval beam.

 

 

Chris

Hi Chris,

I havn't seen any photos or any info on this Patima housing, just a few posts on here talking about it. It seems there is some debate on these forums weather needing to change lenses underwater is really necessary. Rather get your mindset on shooting wide angle or macro for that particular dive. Is the Patima housing the same size as the Fix G11? I've seen the Ikelite for G11 and it's surprisingly big so I want something smaller and lighter for travel.

Would it be better to go with 2 of the smaller S-2000 strobes compared to 1 Z-240. How much bigger and heavier is the Z-240 compared with the S-2000?

 Votexed,

for some reason no american dealer have a photo on his website even if they sell it...

Here is the link to the Patima website: http://patima.nayana.kr/xe/eng_uw1/2832

The housing is a slightly bigger the the FIX housing but much less smaller than the Ikelite but both are much more heavy than the Ikelite.

The Patima housing is VERY sturdy, depth rated to 120 meters and has 2 bayonet ports, 1 wide angle port 82-32mm and one "generic" port 28-140mm where the wide angle port have a 67mm tread to mount wet lens and Austrian shop Underwasser.at is building a slip-over the "generic" port 67mm adapter.

I would guess that the FIX and Patima housings are heavier or +/- same weight as the Ikelite housing, but the complete setup will fit in a cabin luggage

size pelicase, so you can take it with you, what makes traveling much more easy.

Is it necessar to screw on wet lenses? No! Is it confortable and may sometimes realize "better" photos? Yes! You will see that often you choose the

wide angle port to discover under water that you encounter a lot of rare but small critters or you put the macro on and encounter manta rays. For this

occasions a wet lens becomes very handy.

2 S-2000 are absolutely the much better choice than one Z-240 (while 2 Z-240 are better than 2 S-2000 ). The S-2000 are very small, light strobes and

look and work perfect on the S90/G11.

Chris

The D2000 is the way to go. While the S2000 and D2000 supposedly have the same GN practical experience shows that the D2000 is wider, more even coverage. The controls are larger and easier to manipulate underwater and the External Auto mode is useful as is the built in very powerful modeling light. The D2000 is NOT a large strobe, very small and compact, just not as small as the S2000 because the S2000 is missing several useful features.

That said, I like the S2000 and would consider it a good choice if absolute small size is the main issue.

 

The housing is a slightly bigger the the FIX housing but much less smaller than the Ikelite but both are much more heavy than the Ikelite.

The Patima housing is VERY sturdy, depth rated to 120 meters and has 2 bayonet ports, 1 wide angle port 82-32mm and one "generic" port 28-140mm where the wide angle port have a 67mm tread to mount wet lens and Austrian shop Underwasser.at is building a slip-over the "generic" port 67mm adapter.

 

Chris

I think I'm still a little confused about how the "ports" and lenses work as I've never actually had one of these in my hands. Does this Patima housing come with the 2 ports? Then the lenses attach to the ports and the ports screw on and off easily underwater?

I can see the advantage of this type of system. How wide with the wide angle lens for the Patima view? Also how do you like this buckle system to close it up?

Is it more costly to buy all these lenses for the Patima system?

Does the ULCS arms and tray work with this Patima housing?

As long as I can fit my camera, housing, arms, and 2 strobes in a small enough case, or even a camera backpack and travel with ease with it i'm all for it.

Is the Inon Z-240 much bigger then the D2000?

Thanks

 

The housing is a slightly bigger the the FIX housing but much less smaller than the Ikelite but both are much more heavy than the Ikelite.

The Patima housing is VERY sturdy, depth rated to 120 meters and has 2 bayonet ports, 1 wide angle port 82-32mm and one "generic" port 28-140mm where the wide angle port have a 67mm tread to mount wet lens and Austrian shop Underwasser.at is building a slip-over the "generic" port 67mm adapter.

 

Chris

You gave me something more to think about. One of the reasons I was shying away from the Ikelite housing is the size, I assumed it was also heavier. I guess since its a plastic housing vs. aluminum, its lighter eh? What about the Ikelite strobes such as the DS161, are their strobes much larger then the Inon?

Thanks

Vortexed,

ok, let's start from scratch:

1.  A "professional" housing and all DSLR housings are made of 2 pieces, the housing for the body and the port, basically the housing for the lens you use. A Port is a tube or dome with a glass/acrylic lens in front, having the length of the lens inside. This port is removable from the housing by a tread, bayonet or simple pressure (Ikelite) mechanism. Each lens you use have his own port, wide angle lenses usually a dome port while normal or macro lenses have a flat port and the size to fit the lens inside. The camera lens is attached on the body of the camera and not to the housing and you can't change either the lens ,nor the port under water, as water will flood the housing and so the camera/lens inside.

2. The G11 (as all other "traditional" P&S cameras) have one - ususally a zoom- lens and you can't change or separate it from the body.

3. The Patima housing has 2 ports, 1 wide angle port to use for wide angle photos and you can't zoom as this port is very short. Then she has a longer "generic" port where you can use the full range of the zoom lens, from wide angle to zoom. Here cou can see them: http://patima.nayana.kr/xe/eng_uw1/2832

4. The Patima wide angle port has a 67mm tread where you can screw in a super wide angle lens under water, this type is called a wet lens.

Buying the Digi&Dive "generic" port 67mm adapter you will be able to screw on a 67mm treaded macro lens to take super macro photos.

Here you can see the "generic" port 67mm adapter: http://www.unterwasserkamera.at/shop/catal...ma-g10-g11.html

5. There are some extra lenses for the Fix housing as well, but i am not very well informed about them.

6. The Inon UWL-100 Type 2 lens will give you 100° FoV (Field of View) and with the optional dome port for this lens you will get 131° http://www.inon.jp/products/suwl_lens/dome/dome.html

7. No it's not more costly. Additional lenses for the Fix housing or for the Patima housing will finally cost +/- the same. Have that quoted by a shop.

8. ANY strobe arm is attached to the tray ( a baseplate screwed to the housing) or handle (the handle(s) attached to the tray) and never to the housing itself.

So, any arm will work with any camera. What type of arm you choose is limited by your budget and personal preferences. If you go ahead with underwater photography you will sooner or later buy ball arms (ULCS type) as they are much more flexible to use as flex- or loc-line arms, but more expensive.

9. Yes, a FIX or Patima housing, tray, arms, ports, one wet lens and 2 D-2000 will stay in a briefcase size (but thicker) pelicase or in a big photo backpack.

I hope that this cleared some confusion and you understand my limited english.

Chris

You gave me something more to think about. One of the reasons I was shying away from the Ikelite housing is the size, I assumed it was also heavier. I guess since its a plastic housing vs. aluminum, its lighter eh? What about the Ikelite strobes such as the DS161, are their strobes much larger then the Inon?

Thanks

With the help of Google, a weigh scale and "scientific" calculations i calculated the weights as follows:

2.7Kg./5.9lbs. Ikelite housing + G11 Camera

2.2Kg./4.8lbs. Patima housing + G11 camera

1.6Kg./3.5lbs. FIX housing + G11 Camera

The excellent Ikelite DS-160 makes only sense if you use it with the Ikelite housings, as this housing will enable to use Canons e-ttl protocol.

The DS-161 is about 3 times longer than the D-2000 while of similar diameter and weights 1.3Kg./2.7lbs. while the D-200 including 4 AA batteries weight about the half... This strobe is nothing for lightweight, backpack travelers!

I just noted that Inon eliminated the EA (External Automatic) mode on the S-2000 and this is no good! The G11 can not expose TTL in manual mode and the EA Mode of the D-2000/Z-240 "emulate" this quite good. This means now that if you would like to shoot in Manual mode you have to use the S-2000 in manual mode as well.

Not a "big" issue, but you have to get used to that.

Chris

I just noted that Inon eliminated the EA (External Automatic) mode on the S-2000 and this is no good! The G11 can not expose TTL in manual mode and the EA Mode of the D-2000/Z-240 "emulate" this quite good. This means now that if you would like to shoot in Manual mode you have to use the S-2000 in manual mode as well.

Not a "big" issue, but you have to get used to that.

Chris

Hi Chris,

Thanks for all your help with this and explaining all that you certainly are a big help. You know the Fix G11 housing with wide angle lens will view 165 degrees according to that backscatter report. And your telling me the Patima wide angle will give 131 degrees. 34 degress sounds like is a big difference.

BTW, how do you make that degrees symbol on your keyboard?

It seems like there is +/- to all these different set ups. One of the reasons I chose the Canon G11 over the S90 is the 5X zoom instead of 3.7X. But with the Patima Wide lens I wont be able to zoom. I thought I read somewhere I could zoom with the fisheye wide housing.

Such a big decision to make, the wet lens idea really sounds more practical.

I think I'll probably go with the Z240 strobe since it seems to be the best and easiest to use.

Does this z240 strobe fire wirelessly, or is an optical cable required?

Another thing I was thinking about, do any of these strobes double as a video light or are they strictly flash?

Hi Chris,

Thanks for all your help with this and explaining all that you certainly are a big help. You know the Fix G11 housing with wide angle lens will view 165 degrees according to that backscatter report. And your telling me the Patima wide angle will give 131 degrees. 34 degrees sounds like is a big difference.

BTW, how do you make that degrees symbol on your keyboard?

 

It seems like there is +/- to all these different set ups. One of the reasons I chose the Canon G11 over the S90 is the 5X zoom instead of 3.7X. But with the Patima Wide lens I wont be able to zoom. I thought I read somewhere I could zoom with the fisheye wide housing.

Such a big decision to make, the wet lens idea really sounds more practical.

I think I'll probably go with the Z240 strobe since it seems to be the best and easiest to use.

Does this z240 strobe fire wirelessly, or is an optical cable required?

 

Another thing I was thinking about, do any of these strobes double as a video light or are they strictly flash?

Me, I would go with the FIX because of the wider lens port, however, I think you will find the practical DFOV with that port and the G11 to be about 150 degrees, still, very, very wide and yes you can zoom it I have been told. I have the "wet" version of the lens on my FIX90/S90 and with it I do seem to be getting a full 160 plus degrees DFOV but I have not verified this by measuring.