Finally...

Good-bye MX10...just placed my order for the Subal C10 housing. It will ship Monday. In addition I ordered a flat and dome port for my current set of lenses, and a DX90 strobe with UCLS arms. Thanks to David at Backscatter for all his assistance.

I had considered the Jonah housing for sometime but have simply heard too many worrisome things to consider it any longer.

Can't wait to join in all the fun...will be posting my pictures (God help you all )here soon.

One question...the widest lens I currently have is the 17-40 zoom (27mm w/ FOV). How much wider would the Canon 15FE be in comparison? Would I have to "de-fish" the image? If possible, can someone post an image from each for a side by side comparison?

Thanks to everyone who has helped answer my questions on this forum. You all have been a tremendous help.

Lots wider. De-fished it would be over 100 degrees, though I'm not sure exactly since its different from Nikon. It's a very wide lens so you'll need to get close.

De-fishing is easy with some tools and harder with others, but I personally only do it when I think it's necessary (not too often). When you de-fish, you will end up cropping a lot of width out or accept an image that's more like 3.5:2 instead of 3:2.

which ports did you get with your system? I was almost surely ready to buy the Sea & Sea for my 10D when it comes out but more and more I'm starting to lean towards the Subal even though it's like $1000 more

I'm also looking at the 15mm fisheye for wide angle. I already have a 17-35/f2.8L, 50mm macro and 100mm USM macro. That will make up my u/w lens kit. I'd like to try and get away with 2 ports if possible, a large dome port for the 15 and the 17-35 and a single flat port to use either macro lens in. I'll probably need a short flat port with an extension, but which one I have no idea.

I shot off a mail to Backscatter. I've used them before and really like them. Any fact finding info you can share regarding your research before you bought your system would be appreciated.

Marty

Here are a couple samples from my test dive with the Canon 17-40L with the S&S housing for the D60. Did the dive at Dutch Springs, a local dive training site in 50F water with about 30-40 ft vis and a bit of floating crap.

I wouldn't call the 17-40L "wide" on a D60 or 10D, but it's a nice little lens to work with.

All but the 3rd image are at 17mm, the 3rd is at 22mm. In actuality, all but the 3rd are really available light shots, as I was just too far from the subjects using a DS-50. On the 3rd image, the bottom left corner looks soft, but that's probably a DOF problem as I shot it at 1/60 f/6.7.

I'd guess I'm about 4ft from the front corner of the bus in #2, maybe a little farther. About 2ft from the 3rd shot, and 3-5ft from the front corner of the fire truck in the 4th. I may be off on these estimates though, I did the dive a couple weeks back.

One thing for sure, I'm going to have to spend some time working on my lack of WA skills when I take my next trip in January!

The 15mm fisheye would be MUCH wider. One consideration will be how wide you can cover with the DX90 strobe. It might not have enough coverage to handle a fisheye.

Hope this helps.

Tom

Having just done 40 dives in 2 weeks with the Subal C10, I think I can throw in a few suggestions:

1) Get a fisheye. My widest lens right now is the 16-35L, great on a full frame film cam but not quite wide enough with the 10D. I was able to borrow my friend's 15mm fisheye and it was wonderful.

2) You don't need the so called "digital strobes" as you're shooting manual. I preferred to have the strobes set to half power (YS120's) and then changed shutter speed, aperture or even ISO. I found it better to keep the lighting constant then adjust the camera....so did others who shot with DSLRs on the trip.

3) The 100 macro may be a touch too long on the 10D. You'll end up shooting parts of macro subjects as you'll need to back up quite a ways to fill the frame with them. My most used lens was the 28-105USM behind the Subal flat port, followed by the 50mm f2.5 macro.

Here's a sunburst shot taken with the 15mm with the Subal DP-SWC port

Here's a WA reef scenic, again with the 15mm

Another Reef scene but with the 16-35L

Here's a Juvenile Emperor Angel with the EF28-105 at 105mm

Finally, a 25% cropped pic of a pygmy seahorse with the Tamron 90mm Macro

Stu

Hi Marty

I purchased the FP-SWB port for my 17-40 and the FP-75B for my 50mm Macro. The 17-40/SWB requires a 33mm extension ring, +2 diopter and a 4CZ63 zoom gear. The FP-75B flat port is also used for the 100mm macro or 50mm with life size converter but with an appropriate extension ring. I'm not sure what extension ring is required as I don't own either the 100mm Macro or the life size converter so I did not ask about it.

Another, but more expensive, option for WA is the FE2 dome port (8 inches vs. 6 for the SWB). The FE2 requires a 50mm ext. ring w/ the 17-40. The FE2 is supposed to be optically superior to the SWB however, when I asked if two pictures were hanging on the wall, one taken with the SWB and the other with the FE2 and all other things remain constant, could you tell a difference? the answer was "probably not". The SWB is $600.00 less expensive and smaller (therefore easier to pack) and was the Subal standard for lenses up to 14mm (on full frame 35mm film SLRs) before the FE2 came out. It will work just fine for the 15mmFE. For me the cost savings and smaller size of the SWB outways the supposed difference in optical quality and when I do buy a 15mmFE, or whatever Canan may come out with for DSLR WA, the SWB will work just fine up to the 35mm equivilant of 15mm. See Stu's pictures above for examples of this as he used the SWB with his borrowed 15mm.

Other tidbits of info that I found out...clearly people think the Subal is the best housing for the 10d (at least for now). The Jonah may be a great housing for a great price someday...but Jonah is a fledgling company that is still working through a number of issues. As far as the Sea and Sea housing is concerned...no one really knows as none/few have been sold. However, if the 10d housing follows in the wake of other Sea and Sea DSLR housings...people, that I talked to, were less than impressed.

Ultimately, for me the disconcern about the Jonah and SS housings wasn't worth the $1000 savings. This is my first venture into a housed SLR, and digital for that matter. I have used film SLRs for years for land photography but never u/w. I don't wan't the experience to be hindered by "faulty equipment". Having said that, I have heard and read about people who were less than pleased with Subal as well. Nowhere near however to the extent that I heard about Jonah and SS. All of what I have learned has been by reading threads on this forum and talking to various dealers. It does not reflect any personal experience and certainly it is not a slam on any particular manufacturer or equipment as it seems none is perfect. It is simply my opinion given the information I was able to glean before making my purchase.

Hope that helps. I will describe my experiences more once my housing arrives. It seems Stu is the only other person on this forum that is using the Subal C10. I'm hoping he will also share his newly gained expertise with us as well.

I don't have the time and inclination to write a full review on the C10 but if anyone has specific questions, feel free to ask.

A list of what I used:

Canon EOS 10D

Subal C10 Housing

DP-SWC

FP-94B (for the 50mm f2.5macro, EF28-105zoom)

EXR-40 (for the 16-35)

EXR-15 (for the 15mm FE)

EXR-50 (with FP for Tamron SP90mm macro)

Sea and Sea YS120 strobes on either half, full or half with diffuser.

1 thing...you cannot use the BA-SU dovetail mount on the left strobe mount of the C10, the mode dial control is too tall. You'll need to retain the Subal T-plates then use the ULCS BA-TG clamp.

Stu

thanks for the tip on the ultra liight adapter.

what's the difference between the SWB and SWC ports? is it merely the length? sorry for the dumb questions but I can't find any detailed info on the port options other than the chart on MCD's web site which is 2 years old.

btw Stu, where did you buy your system from?

thanks,

Marty

Hi Marty,

The SWC sticks out further than the SWB by 10 or 20mm.

I was in Hong Kong when I purchased my Subal.

Stu

Proud owner of a new Subal C10 housing, SWB port, macro port (75B) and YS 90 strobe w/ ULCS strobe arms. Can't wait to try it all out.

Stu -

Is it ok to use the 50mm macro in the FP-94B without the lifesize converter or will the barrel get in the way?

It's interesting that you use the 28-105 "most of the time". do you know which part of the zoom range you find yourself in most of the time?

I have a 28-135IS lens, I'm very curious to see how the image stabalization works underwater if I could fit it into a flat port with zoom gear and extension ring.

thanks,

Marty

Hi Marty,

I used the 50macro behind the FP94 in my film Subal before going to the 10D with no problems.

As for the 28-105, I couldn't tell you. I got close (within strobe range) and used the zoom to fine tune composition. With the sheer number of shots on tap per dive, the zoom gave me more opportunities than staying with a fixed focal length lens. On the same dive that I got the juvi emperor angel, I have shots of the mature one where the lens was on 28mm.

The 28=135 would be fine. I do recommend you get Woody Mayhew's diopter to add extra magnification to your macro shots. www.nexusamerica.com

Stu

Sadly, Marine Camera Distributors says Subal doesn't support the Canon 28-135IS lens

So what I'm looking at now is the following -

* Subal C5 housing for Canon 10D

* DP-SWC

* EXR-15 (for the Canon 15mm FishEye)

* EXR-40 (for the Canon 17-35/f2.8 w/+4 diopter)

* Zoom Gear 4ZC001 for the 17-35/f2.8

* FP90B (replaces the FP94B) for use with Canon 50mm macro

* Canon 100mm USM macro can be used with FP90B + EXR-40 above.

The MCD guy thinks I might have focus problems using the 50mm with the FP90B due to its length. Has anyone had any problems like this? I used the 50mm in a FP for the 100mm with a UK housing for my EOS 3 a couple of times and had no problems at all.

Overall this looks like a good start with 2 wide options and 2 macro options with a minimum number of extension rings.

the alternate config is to get the FP75B instead of the FP90B for the 50mm macro and add the EXR-50 extension ring to it to use the FP75B with the 100mm USM macro. This gives me the correct port for the 50mm macro but now I need a third extension ring to make use of the 100mm USM macro. Unless I stack the EXR-15 and EXR-40... hmm, that might work too...

Am I missing anything?

thanks,

Marty

Marty,

I've used the FP94B with the 50mm macro for 4 years now, no one's ever claimed my shots to be soft.

The 50 turns into an 80mm equivalent on the 10D so the port will work.

When I was researching my housing, I was glad I didn't listen to MCD, they said my old zoom gears for my film housing would work in the 10D...THEY DON'T!!

Stu

Another, but more expensive, option for WA is the FE2 dome port (8 inches vs. 6 for the SWB). The FE2 requires a 50mm ext. ring w/ the 17-40. The FE2 is supposed to be optically superior to the SWB however, when I asked if two pictures were hanging on the wall, one taken with the SWB and the other with the FE2 and all other things remain constant, could you tell a difference? the answer was "probably not". The SWB is $600.00 less expensive and smaller (therefore easier to pack) and was the Subal standard for lenses up to 14mm (on full frame 35mm film SLRs) before the FE2 came out. It will work just fine for the 15mmFE. For me the cost savings and smaller size of the SWB outways the supposed difference in optical quality and when I do buy a 15mmFE, or whatever Canan may come out with for DSLR WA, the SWB will work just fine up to the 35mm equivilant of 15mm. See Stu's pictures above for examples of this as he used the SWB with his borrowed 15mm.

Just a quick comment on DeepDiscovery's remarks about the Subal SWB and FE2 dome ports. The SWB certainly is a good dome - I've used one for several years - and will give very satisfactory results.

However, I recently acquired a FE2. I'd have to say that if two otherwise identical photos, one taken with the SWB and the other with the same lens through the FE2, were blown up and put on a wall next to each other, I'm fairly sure you could tell the difference. Obviously, there wouldn't be much difference in a small JPEG for the web, but printed even just at A4 size, the superior optics of the FE2 would be quite evident. Although I've only used the SWB with 20 mm and 28 mm lenses, my understanding is that the differences between the two ports is even more apparent with lenses wider than 20 mm.

That said, DeepDiscovery is right in noting that the FE2 is considerably more expensive, and takes up more room in the Pelican case. It's also heavier.

(If there is anyone unconvinced by what I'm saying who would like to buy a SWB dome port, mine is for sale.)

Robert Delfs

However, I recently acquired a FE2.  I'd have to say that if two otherwise identical photos, one taken with the SWB and the other with the same lens through the FE2, were blown up and put on a wall next to each other, I'm fairly sure you could tell the difference.

Darn! Just when I thought I had my order figured out you come burst my perverbial bubble

Can you send a link with a sample from the two ports using full size images? I don't mind the size if they're large but I'd like to see how obvious the difference is if possible.

thanks,

Marty