Messing about with an Subsee external lens

Hi folks,

I just received my very own brand new Subsee +10 to play with in Dominica next month. I got it to use with my Canon 7D Nauticam housing and 100mm lens. My port has the 67mm threads on the end so all I have to do is screw on the Subsee and I'm ready to go. I'm sitting here wondering how I can actually use it in practical terms. Where do you folks who use external diopters keep them when not on the lens? A BC pocket seems awful risky. Do you have a nice soft bag attached to your housing? Tupperware with holes in it? Do you just leave it on?

I'm also curious about real life experience with diffraction limits on the 100mm and the Subsee. Our friend Keri of Reefnet fame (and every photo contest in the last few years) has a wonderful article about using diopters and super macro in general on the DivePhotoGuide site but he tends to shoot the Nikon. I plan to do some testing with the new lens but I was hoping someone could help me out with where to start. f/11, f16? I'm looking for the practical limit to maximize depth of field and minimize diffraction.

I appreciate any advice,

Steve

Hi folks,

I just received my very own brand new Subsee +10 to play with in Dominica next month. I got it to use with my Canon 7D Nauticam housing and 100mm lens. My port has the 67mm threads on the end so all I have to do is screw on the Subsee and I'm ready to go. I'm sitting here wondering how I can actually use it in practical terms. Where do you folks who use external diopters keep them when not on the lens? A BC pocket seems awful risky. Do you have a nice soft bag attached to your housing? Tupperware with holes in it? Do you just leave it on?

 

I'm also curious about real life experience with diffraction limits on the 100mm and the Subsee. Our friend Keri of Reefnet fame (and every photo contest in the last few years) has a wonderful article about using diopters and super macro in general on the DivePhotoGuide site but he tends to shoot the Nikon. I plan to do some testing with the new lens but I was hoping someone could help me out with where to start. f/11, f16? I'm looking for the practical limit to maximize depth of field and minimize diffraction.

 

I appreciate any advice,

Steve

Steve: I have both the +5 and the +10 with the same setup as you if you have the older 100 macro. I actually had Keri make me the adapter that swings out of the way when I am not shooting it. Before I got the adapter, I used a neoprene bag that I actually attached to the handle of the housing, but screwing stuff in and out got to be a pain so I bought the adapter. As for shooting, f11 and f16 both (in my hands) show no measurable diffraction loss in resolution while at f22 I see a bit. If you look at the bubble coral shrimp on the bonaire gallery on our website you see no diffraction issues at f16. I have some newer pics that I can send you if you want to see the effects on a target at f8 through f32. Are you shooting the Nauticam port? If my adapter fits, you can certainly borrow it for your trip.

Bill

Thanks Bill,

I was hoping you'd jump in here. I'm using the Macro port 87 that fits the older 100mm. Same unit fits the Nikon 105. The new 100mm port is a little longer but has the same threaded end.

What did you use to shoot the emperor shrimp in your Indo gallery? I really appreciate the offer of your adapter, but I'd probably break it.

Cheers,

Steve

If you've got any standard ULCS or Inon arms this fits nicely to either:

http://reefphoto.com/index.php?main_page=p...d4fd88f3756766f

There's also a double mount version available too:

http://reefphoto.com/index.php?main_page=p...d4fd88f3756766f

The double mount version worked nicely for Mary when she was shooting an Oly 5050 and carrying around a couple of Inon UCL-165M67 Close-up lenses. It is now mounted on my rig and holding on to my FIT Achromatic +5 and +8 close-up lenses.

Thanks Gudge! That's even better than my tupperware thought. I knew somebody had figured it out.

Cheers parner,

Steve

I have used the SubSee earlier with my Ikelite set up and the adapater for the Ike port. Works just great, and the adapter got quite some useas it is always available with the swing system. Now I have the Nauticam port (the one for the new 100 with IS, but the problem is the same). I use the Subsee much less now, as the srewing in and out isn´t to streamlined. I will most definitely ask Keri to make a Nauticam adapter for me.

No suggestions on the diffraction.

Bent

I have found the +10 subsee rather difficult to use.

The first problem is finding the subject. Part of my problem is the long 180 INON magnifier on my viewfinder. My best plan is to have my wife hold her flash on the subject. Then I can see the light and find the subject. I find this superior to a focus light.

The second is staying still in the water. I find a reef stick is a big help if there isn't a bare spot to grab. Either way I tend to use both hands to keep the camera still. With my 105 it must be still.

Third is getting a focus lock. I set my camera in focus priority, continuous focus, no delay (Nikon settings.) I move in too close (out of focus) than back out (in focus) and move slightly until the camera decides it has a focus lock.

Fouth is getting the D@MN critter to cooperate. My plan here is to campaign for a contest category called 'Best Heartbreak Shot' and enter the attached photo. This is a full frame shot cropped from 3:2 to 11 x 8.5. You can see the depth of field you will be working with at full magnification (minimum working distance). I think this is about the maximum magnification +10 subsss can do.

Tom

My plan here is to campaign for a contest category called 'Best Heartbreak Shot'

Hey Tom, at least you got the eye in focus. What f/stop were you using? I'm planning on doing some testing in the pool tommorow and see which focus technique I like with the 7D. I played with a different wet diopter a couple of years ago in Bonaire and it took me a dive to even get close. I think it's one of those things where a lot of practice helps.

Cheers,

Steve

The above shot and the one posted here were shot at F/32. The above shot was at 1/160 the non-subsee shot below at 1/200.

The strength of the INON magnifier and spot focus is that you simple put the little rectangle on the eye and crop from 3:2 (a poor format for macro IMHO] to 8x10, 11x14 or 8.5x11 to acheive a decent presentation.

This shot is the same, cropped in only one direction. It is with a 105 at minimum focus distance. I personally think the lighting is supurb in this shot as it adds depth while in the above shot depth-of-field adds depth.

I have not spent any time adjusting these shots. This shot does not appear blown out on my monitor but does on the Internet. That is, however, a simple fix in RAW.

What does everybody think?

Thanks Bill,

I was hoping you'd jump in here. I'm using the Macro port 87 that fits the older 100mm. Same unit fits the Nikon 105. The new 100mm port is a little longer but has the same threaded end.

 

 

What did you use to shoot the emperor shrimp in your Indo gallery? I really appreciate the offer of your adapter, but I'd probably break it.

 

Cheers,

Steve

I used the Canon 100 plus a 1.4 plus the +5 subsee. I would definitely ask Keri to make me a Nauticam holder but in the meantime send me your address. I have a spare holder that fits perfectly on the port that you can't break (If I can't break it no one can.)

Bill

billv2001@ca.rr.com

bill.van-antwerp@medtronic.com

I've also been using the SubSee +10 for a while, with both Sigma 70mm and Sigma 105mm on a cropped (1.5X) sensor. I have the swing mount on an Ike port.

It certainly does take some getting used to, and being unable to find the critter through the lens is common even with practice and a Liveview where I don't have to use the viewfinder.

Shining a light, having a buddy point or just starting slightly further away all help - but practice is the best solution.

If you stick with it then it's a great sense of achievement when you do finally get something you would not get with just the lens alone.

Thanks guys,

Beautiful Jeff, Love the first one, what camera settings if you don't mind me asking?

Thanks Bill! PM on the way.

Tom, I had heard that at f/32 we should expect to run into the diffraction limit of the chip/camera. I did a little search and found a pretty good explanation here. Given your results I did a little hot tub diving with the Subsee +10 on the end of my 100mm and the 7D. I shot my watch, hand held and auto focused with my Sola 600. Here is a shot of the watch with 100mm only, no Subsee. Just about minimum focus distance.

Here is using the Subsee +10 at f/16 1/250 and at f/32 1/250 both at ISO 160

The double image on the face is a reflection on the numbers in the glass and not a blurred image. After much pixel peeping I was really surprised by the sharpness of the reflection of the machining marks on the blue dial face, far right side. Best I can tell, it would make sense to shoot at f/32 to gain the DOF and not worry about diffraction limiting with the 7D. Assuming you have the strobe power to get there and max depth of field is what your going for.

What am I missing?

Cheers,

Steve

All were shot at F22 & 1/125.

First two with the 70mm (105 Eqiv), and last with the 105mm (157 Equiv).

For the really small stuff (and the hairy shimp is really small) I prefer the 105 for it's slightly bigger working distance and magnification.

However it is twice as hard to find the critter in the frame!

When I am using the subsee I have both z-240 strobes close to the lens port. At f/32 and 1/200 you still get plenty of light.

If you use a focus light try to set the focus light to be properly positioned at minimum focus distance. At minimum focus distance on the Nikon Af-105-VR I maybe have 2.5-3 inches (I've never actually measured it). Good luck finding the critter.

I agree with Big Jeff. When you do get a shot with a subsee at minimum distance the result is better than getting 1:1. It is somewhere between 2:1 and 2.25:1. It is a REAL super macro shot.

Hey man, on that pigmy shot you can actually see the transparent eye bulge, even at the lousy resolution and color space of the internet. It is a personal triumph even if the d@mn critter is posed incorrectly. Ever seen that before? And actualy getting a recognizable shot of that tiny, tiny hairy shrimp like Big Jeff did? Awesome. Never seen that critter before. Have you?

Great fustration, great fun. Increase your after dive drink budget 50% and everything will be OK.

Regards,

Tom

PS: Going to Magic Island in the Philippines next January. Any shot you sebsee guys can join me? We can hold the flashlight for each other.