help me justify a d1s

Having been shooting with an E-20 since they were first avilable. I now find myself wanting to upgrade for many reasons. What I do not want is to feel the need to upgrade in a year or two (or hopefully even longer). I want a camera and housing that I can truly grow into not have to worry about what is comming out tomorrow.

While the price is not going to break me, the 1ds has a large price tag to swallow for an amateur. I don't sell my stuff. I print up coffee table books and calenders for friends and colleges. I would like to be able to do larger prints as well.

Everything about the 1ds seems incredible, but I wonder if it is over kill. I also wonder how long the technology in this camera is good for. Would I regrete such a large purchase?

The 1Ds is in a class by itself. Other cameras can compete with parts of it, but nothing offers the combination of the pro-level body, high resolution, and full frame goodness that the 1Ds does. Over the next year, we may see a camera that competes with it (the F6) or we may not. Cameras like the 14n and future S3 are/will not be built on the same class body and the D2x will not offer the overall resolution (according to rumors).

Likewise, the Seacam housing is among the elite. It offers the magnified eyepieces that are not available from anyone else. There are other choices that will probably cost less, but if you are comfortable with the cost of the 1Ds the Seacam seems like the natural choice.

For all this you pay a king's ransom. 9-12 months from now we may see the first underwater products that can compete in the same league with the Seacam/1Ds combination but I doubt anyone will be apoligizing for the 1Ds at that time. If the rumored F6 does ship, expect to see similar prices for it as you do for the 1Ds today.

If I weren't so in love with the Nikon 70-180 I'd seriously consider one myself.

Hi M&M,

One thing that you need to be comfortable with is the fact that no matter how much you spend, there will be something better out within a year. In fact, digital camera resolution has been doubling every two years. That means that in a year, there could be a camera out that is twice as good as the 1Ds...it's a fact of "digital life."

The nice thing about SLR's though, is that to upgrade, means the purchase of a new body and sometimes (most times) a new housing, but you can reuse your lenses and usually your ports as well. Digital SLR's seem to hold their resale value very well also, which is nice when it comes time to upgrade.

So yes, while I agree that you will most CERTAINLY be happy with the 1Ds now, you will also CERTAINLY want to upgrade at some point in the future. If you choose wisely now, your upgrade path may be easier later.

The one thing that I keep coming back to is that you won't be using the camera to make money as a "pro." To me this suggests you might want to start with a more moderately priced system. Coming from the E-20 you will certainly be happy with a cropped sensor camera like the Canon 10D or Nikon D100, and at less than half the cost. The features on the 1Ds/Seacam that are sooooo important to have as a pro probably aren't so important as an amateur. The main differences being:

Large optical glass dome

Huge viewfinder, with multiple configurations

Extremely tough finish

11 Megapixel resolution

Full frame sensor

Dozens of focus points,

Etc

HTH

James

I think the general consensus is that the 1Ds is an extremely capable, bordering on amazing, camera. I'd LOVE to have one, even though I know it wouldn't do a heck of a lot to improve my photography. But I don't sell my work either, so it's a tough thing to justify, whether you can afford it or not. Keep in mind that as James said, the body is only part of the cost. You'll have to buy lenses, and a starter set including a 17-40L and 100mm macro will run close to $1200, just for two lenses. Then there's the housing cost, which for the 1Ds will run $5000 for the housing, plus ports at another $1000-$2000 (as a guess).

I'd have to agree with James that maybe you should look into one of the mid-range dSLRs to start, as even those are a huge improvement over the E20. Lenses and ports will still cost the same, but the body and housing body should be half the cost.

Oh, and there WILL be a "next best thing" in no time at all (relative). In which case, it's down to your personality. If you're like many digital camera enthusiasts and always want the latest and greatest, it will get expensive quick. If not and you look at the 1Ds and say "that's got every feature I need or want" then you might be ok.

Just a thought...

I've done side-by-side testing with the EOS1Ds against what I consider the other top contender for professional digital imaging, the D1X. All I can say is: http://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4011

Seriously, my logic is that whatever is introduced at PMA in February may or may not be as good. The cameras may or may not be available by September. The housings may or may not be available by the end of 2004. For the very best there is now in UW imaging, and maybe for most of the next year, the Canon EOS1Ds is at the top of the heap.

You just have to decide if you want the very best.

So Stephen, does that mean I get your first D2x/F6 housing instead of your second?

Kasey

So Stephen, does that mean I get your first D2x/F6 housing instead of your second?

 

Kasey

Kasey ... buying one does not preclude the purchase of the other:-). I'm keeping most of my Nikkor lenses and my Seacam F100 housing, poised to spring back at any time technology dictates. But OK, you can have the first D2X.

There's a guy I used to buy cars from, and every time I'd whine about whether it was truly the right car for me would say "It ain't a tatoo!". I've come to believe digital cameras are but temporary tatoos that hopefully will last through a few showers.

Kasey ... buying one does not preclude the purchase of the other:-). I'm keeping most of my Nikkor lenses and my Seacam F100 housing, poised to spring back at any time technology dictates. But OK, you can have the first D2X.

The Nikkor lenses I can understand; however, I have a hard time imaging a situation where the F100 "spring back".

No, no. I meant "the technology springs back" to that which uses Nikkor lenses. Just trying to stay nimble. But, that said, the F100 can still knock out some mighty fine images. And an 18mm Nikkor behind an 8 or 9 inch dome is still the standard for corner resolution in housed systems.

Thanks for the advice. I have been visiting this site for a long time now and it has been an increadable source of information.0

I am not that naive in thinking that the 1Ds is going to be the end all in cameras. It just seems to me that the camera companies are having a blast praying on those in the prosumer camera markets. It seems they up grade yet hold back some so they have something else to release in a year or two. They just want to make money: case in point is the fact that d-ttl is not accessible to us because the companies want to sell their own flashes. Let’s face it, the next generation of prosumer cameras are going to come out, and a lot of the people on this site who already have great set ups are going to get them or at the least want them pretty badly, especially if they are any full frame sensors.

I look at the 1Ds and see a camera that is 3 times more expensive then others. But realistically, who is going to put an 11 mp full frame sensor, a killer 45 point auto focus system, a 250 sync, etc, etc, in a prosumer camera any time soon for a decent price?

The way I see it I can go out and buy a 10D, or D100, or S2Pro (all great cameras) now and short change what I want, knowing I will have to upgrade once, probably twice or possibly three times to get to anything close to the 1Ds. Or I can bite the big one and buy the 1Ds and hope that this will be good enough for my application for years to come. (Boy I would hope so.) Ultimately yes, in a few generations of prosumer cameras there might be there an equal for a decent price, but by that time how much time, energy, and money would I have spent in upgrading to get there.

Though I seemed pretty convinced on the 1Ds, I think I will take Stephen’s advice and wait for pma to see the next big thing. I just wonder what they will leave out.

I am a gadget junkie seeking help. If I could justify over 12,000 on a 1Ds and Seacam system plus an arsenal of Canon lenses, I would do it. That said, your original post asked whether the 1Ds is overkill for your purposes - of couse it is!!! Why would you want to handle 11MP files if you are not posterizing or selling photos? But if you want it simply because it is the best dSLR ever built (as I do), then won't you still be dreaming of an upgrade when Nikon or Canon brings a much more powerful camera to the market? For the purposes you mention, why would you ever need more than a D1x delivers? Sync speed, great camera body, professional image quality, etc.

I also upgraded from the E-20, and my D100 is a magnificent improvement over that camera. Any of these cameras would be a huge improvement. I now own two D100s, one that is usually in the housing, and one backup that stays dry. I wouldn't want to have to buy a backup for the 1Ds, but I'd be obligated if I went in that direction (although I guess your E20 could backup, but that would mean traveling with a second housing - ugh). It would be silly to spend 12k in camera equipment, and 6k on a dive trip, to have a malfunction and come home without images. And don't forget to budget a new supercomputer to process the 1Ds' montrous files!

Does the 1Ds offer a large improvement in dynamic range over the D1x? I've heard all the speculation, but I still haven't seen the frozen sunrays that film captures. The camera that can do that will be the camera that I want - whether it is 6MP or 30MP. If that camera comers to the scene within 2 years, the 1Ds will be dated.

Sorry to play devil's advocate. I know if you get a 1Ds you'll love it. There aren't many of us that will ever utilize that camera to its fullest, so theoretically it will be enough camera for you for the rest of you life. But lets not be fooled by asking whether it is good enough when we really want the best available.