Video Light Dilemma

Hi all,

If I may, I'd like to take advantage of the collective knowledge of the video cognoscenti here on Wetpixel.

First a couple of points for context. I'm a noob to video. So far I've been familiarising myself with the camera on unlit wide angel scenes during recreational dives and am happy with some of the results I've been getting. Now I'm looking at lights. My primary motivation for getting into video has been to document some wreck and cave exploration I have been involved with over the past couple of years in relatively high quality*. I have a number of friends who are achieving some pretty good results in this respect on other projects so I feel I've got a pretty good feel for how to make that work in the cave environment and am looking at dual 50W HIDs.

However, unlike most of those friends who are largely 'tech' focused I also love bimbling around on reefs with the residents of evolutions' weird and wonderful niches. In this respect I want to enhance the colour of my macro shots using lights but I obviously don't want to blanch my subjects. I fear the two applications are going to require different lighting solutions but my helium bills preclude me splashing on two lighting systems anytime soon.

So my question then, is it possible, through some clever operation, to use non-adjustable high power HID lights for macro work or is this a complete non-starter? Is it practical or feasible to just use the edge of the beam for macro-work or are they just going to blow everything out no-matter what? Diffusers?

I think I probably already know the answer but I'm hoping some helpful soul will have some recommendations or bright ideas that will save me a sizable wedge.

Thanks in advance,

Dave

* With definite emphasis on 'relative' having seen the jaw-dropping quality of some of the footage on here - if I got something even half as good I'd be happy

Hey Dave,

Is it you from 5o's? if so, small world- how you doing?! I think the macro question depends a fair bit on what you're filming and when. If it's broad daylight, and the subject isn't too skittish, then really bright lights can be good for macro- as you get a better quality image and more depth of field. If you have non-adjustable HIDs, you can also put filters on them to cut down and diffuse the output a bit. It's mainly at night that I've found a lot of critters get really overpowered by bright lights.

Cheers,

Ferg

I used to love the L & M HID lights I was using. Then I received a set of the Sunray 2000 LED lights so I retired the HIDs to a drawer. However, I found that just having 3 lumens settings with the LED lights served not too much of a purpose. The 2000 lumens setting was simply too much for any medium or close up work so I lowered to the settings back down to 1000 which was almost exactly the setting of the HID lights which had a lumens setting of 997. Yes, sometimes I will go down to 500 lumens but I find the 1000 setting to be just fine.

A problem, as I see it, is that whenever a company comes out with a new light, many jump on the bandwagon and figure that if it is new than that is the one to get. BS. If what you have works fine than stay with it and save yourself some money. I would have been very happy with the HID lights laying in my drawer the last few years. Never had a problem with them, they were light weight and did just fine.

Steve

For fish, doing macro with a bright light in their eyes, will scare most of them away.

This is why a strobe is used. That, and the shear amount of light put out, so you can shoot macro at f22-32, for great DOF.

Perhaps the ike ds161. Has both strobe and movie light.

Quite a few ways to get what you want.

1. Filters/Diffusers: Just go buy some diffuser or ND filters sheets for your big lights. Or you can even use color filters to get the optimal color temp. You can easily kill 2-3 stops that way.

2. Just longer arms. 1ft is approx 1/3-1/2 stop, so back the lights with longer arms. Also position the beam to the edge and not the center.

3. Look at halogen lights. You can change bulbs easily and affect light output. From 30W-100W or 100W-400W if you want.

Hi all,

 

If I may, I'd like to take advantage of the collective knowledge of the video cognoscenti here on Wetpixel.

 

First a couple of points for context. I'm a noob to video. So far I've been familiarising myself with the camera on unlit wide angel scenes during recreational dives and am happy with some of the results I've been getting. Now I'm looking at lights. My primary motivation for getting into video has been to document some wreck and cave exploration I have been involved with over the past couple of years in relatively high quality*. I have a number of friends who are achieving some pretty good results in this respect on other projects so I feel I've got a pretty good feel for how to make that work in the cave environment and am looking at dual 50W HIDs.

 

However, unlike most of those friends who are largely 'tech' focused I also love bimbling around on reefs with the residents of evolutions' weird and wonderful niches. In this respect I want to enhance the colour of my macro shots using lights but I obviously don't want to blanch my subjects. I fear the two applications are going to require different lighting solutions but my helium bills preclude me splashing on two lighting systems anytime soon.

 

So my question then, is it possible, through some clever operation, to use non-adjustable high power HID lights for macro work or is this a complete non-starter? Is it practical or feasible to just use the edge of the beam for macro-work or are they just going to blow everything out no-matter what? Diffusers?

 

I think I probably already know the answer but I'm hoping some helpful soul will have some recommendations or bright ideas that will save me a sizable wedge.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Dave

 

* With definite emphasis on 'relative' having seen the jaw-dropping quality of some of the footage on here - if I got something even half as good I'd be happy

Quite a few ways to get what you want.

1. Filters/Diffusers: Just go buy some diffuser or ND filters sheets for your big lights. Or you can even use color filters to get the optimal color temp. You can easily kill 2-3 stops that way.

2. Just longer arms. 1ft is approx 1/3-1/2 stop, so back the lights with longer arms. Also position the beam to the edge and not the center.

3. Look at halogen lights. You can change bulbs easily and affect light output. From 30W-100W or 100W-400W if you want.

I actually miss my Halogen lights, 50w turn on in a flash compared to HID and a great colour. Shame about the massive batteries though.

Hi all,

Thank you very much for the info.

@ Ferg, Yup it's me! Small world indeed. I imagine the underwater video scene is a small corner in a small world as well!

Another pro for me for the HIDs is that I could run them off the battery packs we already use for primary lights and/or heating vests so everything becomes standardised and components are interchangeable - useful when all that gear is coming anyway. However, the resulting system would be pretty massive and not exactly travel friendly so I guess I now need to decide whether I'd want to haul them with me if I were going fish chasing given today's frankly meager baggage allowances.

But good to know it's workable from a results point of view so thanks again for the tips and info.

Hmmm... decisions, decisions. They say diving is inexpensive once you own the gear - however I'm yet to meet someone that's completed the acquisition process!

Dave

You do have the option of using a canister battery with a wet connect. That would allow you to use different lamp types, HID, halogen, LED. I have an old AUL cannister and Sartek halogen and LED lights. I like the warmth of halogen for night dives and the white light of LED for day dives.

You do have the option of using a canister battery with a wet connect. That would allow you to use different lamp types, HID, halogen, LED. I have an old AUL cannister and Sartek halogen and LED lights. I like the warmth of halogen for night dives and the white light of LED for day dives.

Hi Ron,

How do you rate the Sartek LED light heads? Which version are you using? The 1500 lumen LEDs could be an option if I could get away with a 9aH can rather than having to drag a 13.5 along. Are the Sartek wet connects standard EOs do you know?

Cheers,

Dave

Hi Dave,

if you choose a LED light I would go for one which you can adjust freely so you have the full control about your light output and if you want to do it right you need two of those.

I only worked with adjustable lights, first 2 x 50 W Halogen, now 2 x 30 Watt LED. I never liked the idea of a lamp with only has an on/off switch or like 3 different light settings.

To attach the lights I use ball and joints which you can get from any camera/light company. This way you can move them around as you wish, you get them in different length and it's easy to disconnect a light and place it somewhere around your subject if you wish so.

Best regards,

Klemens

Hi Ron,

 

How do you rate the Sartek LED light heads? Which version are you using? The 1500 lumen LEDs could be an option if I could get away with a 9aH can rather than having to drag a 13.5 along. Are the Sartek wet connects standard EOs do you know?

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

I have two 1500 lumen LED Sarteks. Powered with a 5 amp NIMH battery with a Y-cable. I haven't used them much yet. To my eyes, they are noticeably less powerful than my 50 watt halogens. However, the color should make them work better than halogens for daytime macro use. For night time, the LED are very blue and need manual white balancing to make the color pleasing. Sartek uses standard EO wet connects.