Subtronic Pro 160 v Inon Z240 IV

Just a quick one... Am hopefully finally just about to get a rig for my 5D MkII and was torn between Hugyfot or Aquatica but aside from that one the strobes i have come down to is between the Subrtonic Pro 160's and the Inon Z240's Mk IV's....

There is a fair bit of price difference between them but the question is, is it really worth the extra cash? Bearing in mind you will need to get a ttl converter is you want to use ttl with the inon's but not the subtronics, so that slightly lessens the price difference.

I largely shoot macro at the moment but that is more due to the viz and am hopefully changing locations in the not too distant future so would like to have the cover for wa too. Also a concern for me was the depth ratings of the strobes as i am planning on hitting so dives sub 100m and from what i can read it seems to subtronics although over the official ratings seems to work ok down there.

Anyways, what it comes down to is... Are the Pro 160's really that much better and worth the extra cash or would you just go for the safter bet of the Z240's. Remember there will be a pair of them.

Oww, on the subrtonics, would you need to only have one canon version and the second just plain or do you need to get both as canon versions??

Randomly is there any reason why you couldn't use seacam stobes with the aquatica housings? Their ttl is built in the flash isn't it?

Ta for the time.. hope all is good in the world!

Shooting with TTL can be useful if conditions can change rapidly. That said, you will lack control of the "look" of the image because of eTTL. I've never been too fond of eTTL II topside and my experiments with it underwater have been good with macro but so so with wide angle.

From what I remember, the Subtronics use the HW TTL converter, which for Canon, does not have rear curtain or high speed sync. Only the Seacam Seaflash 150 has 2nd curtain. So 2 important eTTL features are missing from the Subtronic. That plus the portability issue. The battery for the 160 is in the arms whereas the Z240 are AA batteries. Size makes a difference as well.

I like the battery arm aspect except it is pretty heavy. Weighing it all up, I think the Z240 combo is lighter and smaller. Plus you can just go to the store to buy AA batteries if your charger or batteries fail. You can't with a Subtronic battery.

If you search for Subtronic in this forum, you'll find that the reliability can be a bit suspect. I never had a problem when I tried the Nova and 160 but that was for a few days. The Z240 is almost disposable since the repairs requires either replacing the entire flash assembly internally for about 70-80% of a new one or dumping it. Still they are very reliable. I've never had a problem with my Type IIs (but I did with the similar D180W).

You may also wish to consider the S&S TTL converter and even the S&S housing for the 5D2. I wrote a review on a few of the 5D2 housings last year.

Basically, if you must have eTTL, the choices are the Subtronic Pro160, EasyDive Easy Flash and the Seacam Seaflash 150. HW doesn't make external TTL converters anymore. Note that you'd be limited to 1/200 with eTTL on all. That and rear curtain makes it pretty desirable.

hmm.. seems like the subtronic may not be such a hot idea. If there are no issues with using the seacam flashes with other houses, they do indeed look mighty nice and are not that much more expensive that subtronic 160's.

I notice with the seacam's that both strobes are controlled as if it is one from the camera itself. Will that work the same if i use them on an aquatica housing or is that something that only works on seacam housings? I like the hartenberger ones too, anyone use them at all?

I own 3 Hartenberger's 250TTL. They are massive but the recycle time are the fastest in the market. This is partially because Harty's use NiCad batteries, which are toxic and soon to be phased out (I hope). I switched all my batteries to NiMH using 3rd party sources so I can get maybe 1.5fps at 250W, still faster than anything else on the market.

It has a few annoying features like when it beeps if the camera fires while it turned off and the controls are to the side which can be a pain to access in a rush. It worked pretty well in Slave TTL mode with the HW converter and a 580EX. Check with Hartenberger about the availability of the eTTL.

If you search for Subtronic in this forum, you'll find that the reliability can be a bit suspect. I never had a problem when I tried the Nova and 160 but that was for a few days. The Z240 is almost disposable since the repairs requires either replacing the entire flash assembly internally for about 70-80% of a new one or dumping it. Still they are very reliable.

I was speaking to Markus Moll of Subtronic yesterday and (although he is not aware of who I am and my history with his companies products) he was speaking very bullishly about the effort they have put in to making their latest products "unbreakable". Of course, he's the owner of the company - so he's going to say that. But good to hear they are focused on improved reliability.

Alex

"Unbreakable", "Bulletproof"... "sexy!" Who cares?!? I just want something that works reliably!

Speaking of european products, one should be aware that Deutsche customs are a pain to deal with. For instance, with Hartenberger, they won't accept Fedex because of customs procedures. Austria's Seacam also has all sorts of paperwork before you can send stuff back. So make sure where you buy, there is some sort of local service that can take care of everything. That is the strength of Inon. Simple replacement module for most anything and it's very internationally available.

When putting together my kit in 2009 I was in the same place. At the end of day I choose the 160Pros because at the time I felt they had the slight edge over the 240s. I have to admit I had concerns with the battery but so fat it has not been a problem. I have to say I like the INON for the battery swap.

Besides the practical battery/size issues, one also has to consider the quality of the beam. The Inon has a T shaped beam due to the placement of the strobe. To get that traditional round beam, one has to keep the 0.5 diffuser on.Furthermore, the color temp of the Inon is 5500k compared to the 4500-5000k of the others. So if one wants to color correct with filters, even more light is robbed. Thus the Z240 is essentially less powerful than other 150/160W strobes.

The Hartenberger, Subtronic and Seacam all use round tube bulbs which give the "je ne sais quois" round soft edged look some people clamor for.

I use the Inon mostly for macro, and occasionally for widish angle, but I tend to use a 3rd or 4th strobe in the middle for added power since I color correct with filters. 2 of those Inons with 0.5 diffuser and filters are roughly equal to 3/4 power of my 250W hartenbergers.

For 2 of the Subtronic strobes, one can buy 5 Inons (8 if you compare with the Seacam) and still have change. I'm always in fear of my Hartenberger charger frying or the batteries failing. I've been on so many trips where Ikelites, Subtronics and Seacam batteries or chargers fail due to a current surge, age etc. Whereas with the Inons, AA batteries are probably the most easiest to find in the world. On location, that sort of reliability and ease can't be quantified enough!

Drew, i live split in the UK and Kenya, so posting within europe they do except Fedex etc.. but that must indeed be a pain if you are outside it.

Ideally i would get a nice pair of hartenberger or Seacam's but i think it is just going to come down to the cash issue for me. From all reports the Inon's seem to offer a very acceptable and workable general strobe, and as where i am i do far more macro than wide angle so it seems that is should be ok there too.

Battery wise, def get your point, but with a view on this one... you live in a country where you can walk down to any shop and get some half decent batteries that will last a dive. Not quite so the case when i am in kenya. The batteries you get there are just utter pants and if you do get the Duracel they are darn expensive. There is a good chance that they would not last a full dive of moderate use. I know the answer is to get some good rechargable ones but was just thinking of the comparrison of how the fedex issue can affect you, accessability to reliable cheap batteries is also an issue my end... Suppose it all just comes down to the size of the wallet, if you can afford to have spare chargers and battery packs then peachy, if you can't, well we find a way!

More of a concern is the build quality/realiablity for the money. As the good doctor said Subtonic say they have put a renewed focus on there area but sadly i just dont have the cash to risk being in the position of being the one to find out how true or not that statement is, and the real plus point for the Inon has got to be that it is still cheaper to just junk it and replace it if it goes wrong and you are still a way short that the cost of having just bought 1 of the others. (i know you can repair the Inon's but you get the point!! )

It would be great is some of the strobe companies made depth upgrades possible for their strobes! that would help! Seacam seems to be the only one with confidence of you taking their strobes down below 100m.

Have you considered housing the Canon 580 EXII? More powerful than the Z240, recycles faster, runs on 4 AA's and can do wide angle beams. The bonus of being able to have a great flash for topside photography could not be understated as well...

I don't know how the 580 compares with the subtronic in terms of raw power but I bet it would win the fight. You may also get a housing for it that can go below 100m (unverified - need to do research). I think the only downside is the heft and size. I saw the Patima housing for it and it is BIG but high quality.

Using eTTL is not my cup of tea (you are already doing it so no matter) but I am thinking of switching over to the 580 for my next setup.

My point about the battery is that even if your chargers and batteries die, you can still find AA cells (whatever quality) and be able to shoot. No matter how bad those AA cells are, it's better than no strobe. And no matter how much the duracells are in Kenya, it can't be more expensive than fedex from Germany/Austria/US etc for a new battery.

Battery wise, def get your point, but with a view on this one... you live in a country where you can walk down to any shop and get some half decent batteries that will last a dive. Not quite so the case when i am in kenya. The batteries you get there are just utter pants and if you do get the Duracel they are darn expensive. There is a good chance that they would not last a full dive of moderate use. I know the answer is to get some good rechargable ones but was just thinking of the comparrison of how the fedex issue can affect you, accessability to reliable cheap batteries is also an issue my end.

 

It would be great is some of the strobe companies made depth upgrades possible for their strobes! that would help! Seacam seems to be the only one with confidence of you taking their strobes down below 100m.

If you have a minimal depth limit, then you have no other choice.

Slash, now you've made me want to go test the 580EXII against the Z240.

Slash, now you've made me want to go test the 580EXII against the Z240.

I went diving in Taiwan a couple weeks ago with a guide who housed his 580. He told me that it was roughly twice the strength of the Z240. I am a skeptical person, but when he would say something, I was apt to believe it (very cool and straightforward guy).

That said, please test it!

I could only imagine two 580's underwater... they would probably end up blinding all of your subjects.

I went diving in Taiwan a couple weeks ago with a guide who housed his 580. He told me that it was roughly twice the strength of the Z240. I am a skeptical person, but when he would say something, I was apt to believe it (very cool and straightforward guy).

 

That said, please test it!

 

I could only imagine two 580's underwater... they would probably end up blinding all of your subjects.

Double the power is a single stop, so that might not make housing the 580 worthwhile. Put another way, with a GN of 24 for the Z240 and 58 for the 580 and assuming a 3 fold reduction in power for UW use (somewhere between 2 and 5) and ISO 100 you can illuminate (at f8) a scene from an extra 3 feet away or so. That might make a big difference or less of one depending of course what you are shooting. For macro it seems overkill but for WA it might be worth the size and weight.

Bill

Bill those specs are kinda skewed. The 580 is GN 58 but zoomed @ 105mm... @ 14mm, it's GN 15 :

http://thurly.net/1a5j

I remember using both 580EX and Z240 before and found the Z240 to be a bit more powerful. I didn't quantify the power difference since high speed sync @ high fps didn't work so well with optical firing of the secondary strobes.

I remember testing the 550ex vs the YS120, both at manual, full power with a flash meter. The 550 was zoomed to 50mm (it goes from 28-105). The YS120 blew the 550ex away by a full 2 stops according the flash meter.

S.