Need help diagnosing issue with my HC7 camera

Hi folks,

Just trying to diagnose an issue that I had with my HC7 camera (Bluefin housing) this weekend. I'd like to know if it is a once off or if it is something to be concerned about - especially given we are leaving for a Red Sea dive trip this Friday...

I was reviewing some footage and noticed that towards the end of the dive some footage looked very blurry / jerky - almost as if the tape head was misaligned or something. The camera would do this for a while and then clear up after I moved the housing and then get blurry again after moving the housing again.

The only thing different that happened on this dive compared to others is that when I opened my housing, I did notice that the desiccant pack that I regularly put in my camera had moved back in the housing to be wedged between the camera and the right hand plastic piece (I think it is the infrared receptor that aligns with the camera handle???)

The other slightly weird thing was that, in setting up for the dive, I couldn't get my one push white balance to work inside the housing - it seems like everything had shifted slightly right on the touch screen. I've had my flip screen come out of alignment before, though in this case I hadn't made any adjustments to the camera since last using it, so not sure why it happened. In any case, I tried to re-calibrate and thought I had it sorted but when I was underwater it didn't work again. So as a backup then I selected auto white balance and then the camera wouldn't let me select one push after that. Weird...

I've uploaded a bit of the footage so you can see what I'm talking about - sorry about the footage - it's all rubbish shots (forgot to turn camera off) but it is useful to show the jerkiness and then how, after moving the camera slightly (about 10 second in to the video), it clears up again. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kImkfADG68

Has anyone seen this sort of thing before? Is it probably the floating desiccant pack or is this the beginning of the end for my camera??

Thanks

Rebecca

Hi folks,

 

Just trying to diagnose an issue that I had with my HC7 camera (Bluefin housing) this weekend. I'd like to know if it is a once off or if it is something to be concerned about - especially given we are leaving for a Red Sea dive trip this Friday...

 

I was reviewing some footage and noticed that towards the end of the dive some footage looked very blurry / jerky - almost as if the tape head was misaligned or something. The camera would do this for a while and then clear up after I moved the housing and then get blurry again after moving the housing again.

 

The only thing different that happened on this dive compared to others is that when I opened my housing, I did notice that the desiccant pack that I regularly put in my camera had moved back in the housing to be wedged between the camera and the right hand plastic piece (I think it is the infrared receptor that aligns with the camera handle???)

 

The other slightly weird thing was that, in setting up for the dive, I couldn't get my one push white balance to work inside the housing - it seems like everything had shifted slightly right on the touch screen. I've had my flip screen come out of alignment before, though in this case I hadn't made any adjustments to the camera since last using it, so not sure why it happened. In any case, I tried to re-calibrate and thought I had it sorted but when I was underwater it didn't work again. So as a backup then I selected auto white balance and then the camera wouldn't let me select one push after that. Weird...

 

I've uploaded a bit of the footage so you can see what I'm talking about - sorry about the footage - it's all rubbish shots (forgot to turn camera off) but it is useful to show the jerkiness and then how, after moving the camera slightly (about 10 second in to the video), it clears up again. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kImkfADG68

 

Has anyone seen this sort of thing before? Is it probably the floating desiccant pack or is this the beginning of the end for my camera??

 

Thanks

Rebecca

The desiccant has nothing to do with it. You can't wildly pan the camera around like that and expect the video to come out 'normal' with a rolling shutter CMOS sensor camera. Obviously, this isn't an issue because no one in their right mind would intend to shoot like you did intentionally, but if you google around and see the problems people have shooting rolling shutter cmos cameras in vibration environments (i.e helicopters), or the artifacts when doing quick pans, you see 'waving' effects like this. It's inherent of the design.

The desiccant has nothing to do with it. You can't wildly pan the camera around like that and expect the video to come out 'normal' with a rolling shutter CMOS sensor camera. Obviously, this isn't an issue because no one in their right mind would intend to shoot like you did intentionally, but if you google around and see the problems people have shooting rolling shutter cmos cameras in vibration environments (i.e helicopters), or the artifacts when doing quick pans, you see 'waving' effects like this. It's inherent of the design.

Hmmm.. I'll keep that in mind and hope that is what it is. It's just that this is not the first time I've forgotten to turn off the camera underwater and my previous wild panning footage from it just hanging from my person as I swim has never resulted in this weird waviness until this weekend. I should also note that this weekend there is also footage where I have, after swimming for a while with it hanging from me, recording unintentionally, stabilised the movement of the camera , and hold it right side up, but the juttering continues to occur for at least 10 seconds or more.

Yep looks like the jelly effect from using a CMOS camera but you moving it around like that makes it only worse.

The other thing is these little HDV camera's are compressing the video footage down quite abit.

Full HD video is around 135+mbps.

The 25mbps MPEG2 date feed to the tape is not enough to store - keep up with all the information the video sensor is picking up so it drops the quality to keep up hence some HDV camera pans, and fast movements look soft and not very good. The higher end MPEG2 HDV cameras run at 35 mbps which is much better.

As for control problems, I would say things have moved a bit, they can be finicky to get perfect some times.

I've updated the video to show another time where it starts happening but I'm not really jerking around the camera too much. If you listen closely at the 15 second mark when it goes all juttery, the mechanical recording sound changes slightly - sounds more laboured (I don't use a mike as the plug to my housing doesn't work so you can actually hear the camera workings)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrl2wXVjhg8

I believe it's just bad focus. You have AF on which means it will hunt when there's not enough contrast. Keep it in manual focus @ 0.3-1m focus distance away.

Yes that last one looked like it was on auto focus.

I could hear that noise as it went out of focus but that could be the camera trying to find focus again.

Try it on manual focus.

Given that I am still quite a newbie to this, I tend to "mis"-navigate my controls on the camera and often have unintentionally switched it from manual to auto focus (I'm trying to instill discipline to check every time I start to film - but its hard to do without a remote monitor on my housing - I either have to peek through a little circle or turn the camera on its side to look at the touch screen - did I mention that I am super keen to upgrade my housing and camera to the newest Sony / Bluefin setup??? Alas, not quite ready financially for that...)

Anyway all of this to say that none of my previous footage where it was on auto focus and started "seeking" due to insufficient contrast did it make this juttery look or sound like that....

Oh well, we'll see if the camera lasts through the trip (cross your fingers, I hear some of the diving is unreal...) Otherwise, I'll be getting that new set-up upon my return....

I'll update this thread with the outcome.

It did look like it was an AF isue. On the first video you can clearly see where the AF kicks in at 0.11 and it is pretty apparent on the second video where it goes out of focus. You really need to always be shooting manual focus. Even when footage initially looks good you'll often find when you review it properly that there has been lots of focus hunting going on when you've been using AF underwater.

Although I do think that's your problem I do know of both a HC7 and a HC9 that has had intermittent issues with the OIS that caused similar results and it eventually failed altogether on both cameras so I'd definitely get it checked out before your trip if you still have time.

Cheers, Simon

Anyway all of this to say that none of my previous footage where it was on auto focus and started "seeking" due to insufficient contrast did it make this juttery look or sound like that....

 

Oh well, we'll see if the camera lasts through the trip (cross your fingers, I hear some of the diving is unreal...) Otherwise, I'll be getting that new set-up upon my return....

 

I'll update this thread with the outcome.

Always turn off OIS underwater.

Always turn off OIS underwater.

Ahh, that is something new for me. I have my "Steadyshot" turned on. I will turn it off and see if that helps....

I had this with an HC-9. The image vibrates at such a rate that it looks like it's OOF, you can see it pretty clearly above water, but underwater you don't spot it until you look at the footage.

We sent the camera in to be fixed, don't know what it was or what they did to fix it though, but looks exactly like the same problem. It also comes and goes and if I remember rightly only happened with the screen out (but don't hold me to that.)

I had this with an HC-9. The image vibrates at such a rate that it looks like it's OOF, you can see it pretty clearly above water, but underwater you don't spot it until you look at the footage.

 

We sent the camera in to be fixed, don't know what it was or what they did to fix it though, but looks exactly like the same problem. It also comes and goes and if I remember rightly only happened with the screen out (but don't hold me to that.)

Hmm, could you please explain what you mean by "screen out"? Do you mean when the touch screen is flipped so it is facing outwards?

Well, bad news. I took the camera in to my local Sony Service Centre and they tell me the "mechanism" is shot and needs to be replaced which will cost $250 and take a few weeks because they have to order the part.

So now I have no camera for my trip. I'm galvanized into overdrive to buy my replacement gear. Scubapix can supply the housing but I am not having any luck finding a Sony XR or CX 550 that can be shipped to Sydney by Friday. Does anyone have any ideas???

Scubapix can supply the housing but I am not having any luck finding a Sony XR or CX 550 that can be shipped to Sydney by Friday. Does anyone have any ideas???

I think there is a Sony shop in sydney airport (terminal 1? terminal 2?) - if they are nice in there they could easily transfer one form stock to the airport shop for you to purchase on your way through.

The might not be nice though.

Maybe buy a second hand HC7 or HC9 as a back up? You should be able to pick them up really cheap now and although I've not used a CX or XR 550 I doubt there would be much if any increase in quality. The HC7 was a great little cam.

You should be able to pick them up really cheap now

I'm looking to do exactly this - any idea where i could get them from cheap - they have been same price in the UK for 4 years.

I'm looking to do exactly this - any idea where i could get them from cheap - they have been same price in the UK for 4 years.

LOL well I could be wrong then. The first place for cheap 2nd hand cameras is always ebay, have you checked there? (Sorry if that's a dumb question!). I have a very battered, dented and well used HC7, which I still use it as a polecam. Hopefully it will keep going for a few more years!

Maybe buy a second hand HC7 or HC9 as a back up? You should be able to pick them up really cheap now and although I've not used a CX or XR 550 I doubt there would be much if any increase in quality. The HC7 was a great little cam.

I've liked my HC7 as well. If I had a working external monitor for my HC7 Bluefin Housing, I would definitely stay with it. But since I have had no luck in finding a working replacement for the monitor, I need to move on. This was my intention before this camera problem so doesn't seem like it would make sense to buy another HC7 cam if I'm not going to stick with the set up - in any case I haven't been able to find any HC7 cams online in Oz either...

Note that I will be fixing my HC7 cam anyway as I'll then be able to sell it. Its just a shame it can't be ready in time for the trip.

Might be going to the Red Sea without anything - I'll just be taking mental videos.....