Pro Camcorder help

Hi, I am new to filming underwater except with Nikon D3s (photography i know very well). I am considering a camcorder in a housing now, I need a new challenge. The RED is way to expensive and I don't even know if the camcorders today are any better than DSLR when it comes to low light video?

My need's

* Extremely good in low light, most diving take place in total darkness but with good vis...

* would prefer 1920x1080p /60 fps

* Manual exposure, focus and WB

* I think I want a gates housing (i guess Amphibico is out of business?)

There is a few cameras I have looked in to,

* CX-700V

* EX1R

* XF105

* XH-A1s

I have very powerful video lights already and my friends that do lightning for me has a couple of 200 watt HMI's

Please give me advice on what else to think about.

// Alex

I think that by far the best in low light would be the EX1R. The XH-A1s does not excel at low light. Gates does not yet have a housing for the XF105. They will have a housing soon for the CX700v, but I don't think it comes close to the low light capabilities of the EX1R.

Pat

I think that by far the best in low light would be the EX1R. The XH-A1s does not excel at low light. Gates does not yet have a housing for the XF105. They will have a housing soon for the CX700v, but I don't think it comes close to the low light capabilities of the EX1R.

 

Pat

Thank you Pat. Yes the EX1R looks very nice! I will look in to that cam a bit more...

// Alex

Thank you Pat. Yes the EX1R looks very nice! I will look in to that cam a bit more...

 

// Alex

Hi Alex

Gates EX1r Housing and Fathom lens is indeed very nice. I have helped a few happy owners and they are shooting great UW videos with them. Wait until you hear the price. If you want to try out something that is as good for broadcast level and does not really break the bank the XF 100 or XF 105 is a good choice. I am about to deliver a custom made housing for the XF100/ 105 for a friend. We may have something to report in a couple of weeks. I am sure he will chime in as soon as he gets his hands on the housing.

I am quite impressed with this camcorder on land so far and have commissioned a housing to shoot UW 3D video with two of these on my home brewed 3D rig. Sorry I have gone off topic a bit.

Regards

David

Thank you David, yes the EX1R is big $ but it is never cheap to get the really good stuff... I will look in to the XF 100 & XF 105 to.

Does anyone know if Gates has any plans to make a housing for those cameras?

// Alex

* CX-700V

* EX1R

* XF105

* XH-A1s

Hello Alex,

Your camcorder list is quite diverse in capability. The most important question: 'What is the purpose of your video?' If you are aiming for broadcast / stock footage, then the EX1R is accepted by BBC, Discovery, etc when using the nanoFlash and Super Wide.

If you're going for home movies, then the CX700 will work great, as will Canon counterparts like the XA10 (very good in low light).

After ID'ing your purpose, then select on size, features, etc.

If you have questions about this, feel free to contact us JohnEGates@sbcglobal.net.

J-

Hi John,

thank you for a good reply. Yes Broadcast quality is needed. So is the EX1R the best solution then? I will use the super wide and Nano flash if required.

Is the XF105 ok for broadcast?

Thank you // Alex

I don't understand why you'd consider the XH-A1 and not XF300 series? I understand that the housing situation is an issue but if you are trying to do broadcast, the XF300/305 cameras are qualified by the BBC (without Nano) and hence good for most others as an A cam. You can always custom a housing with Ikelite, Gates or someone else.

If you will be doing topside, you may want to consider the NX70, which has pro audio and more functions than the 700 consumer model.

Since you are svenskarna, the EX1R does well in both PAL/NTSC.

If you want nice low light, the bigger the sensor the less noise. In the under $7k price range doing 1080/60p (by the way I thought Svenska TV was 25FPs?)

Personally I think if you are not shooting for broadcast/film where resolution is important, and want combo stills/video, switch to Canon.

Hi Drew,

thanks for you reply! Canon DSLR is not a solution right now, maybe in the future... I think the EX1R with nanoFlash is what i am looking for. And there are already housings and that makes it convenient!

// Alex

The XF105 are one step down from the EX1R and XF305, which are considered qualified for highest level (gold) acquisition.

We have an EX1R housing ready to go with Super Wide.

J-

Thank you David, yes the EX1R is big $ but it is never cheap to get the really good stuff... I will look in to the XF 100 & XF 105 to.

Does anyone know if Gates has any plans to make a housing for those cameras?

 

// Alex

Hi Alex

I am sure others will chime in very soon......... If money is no object then Red Epic is possible too and Gates is making a housing for it. You may have to consider the cost of the whole package including editing software and a fast computer. Parts add up and before you know it you would have spend a fortune just so you could learn about UW video. I have seen cameraman come back with fantastic footage with just a CX550 and others not so good with much higher end equipment. If you plan to sell you footage then consider cameras approved by the likes of BBC and Nat Geo. EX1r and XF 305 are in there. I am sure more cameras will be approved soon. The Sony EX1r happen to be supported by more UW housings. This I think limits choice IMHO.

Good footage will depend on luck, how often you shoot and the location you are shooting in. Since you are relatively new to UW video then best is to have a chat with some people who shoots video for a living. I know a few here in SE Asia you may want to contact with and most are using the Gates plus EX1r with Nano flash recorder. There are topside shooters too not just underwater. If your are serious you many want to consider a second cam for this purpose. This is just my personal opinion on cameras as I think there are more choice out there other than Sony and after using the XF 105 for a few months I like its small form and it suits most of my purposes. The XF100/ 105 the codec used is 422 (broadcast level) and if you want higher bit-rate you could hook it up with a Nano. Size and weight of the whole kit is also important especially for international travel.

Regards

David

Hi Drew,

thanks for you reply! Canon DSLR is not a solution right now, maybe in the future... I think the EX1R with nanoFlash is what i am looking for. And there are already housings and that makes it convenient!

 

// Alex

Except that post wasn't even finished!

If you want 1080/60p AVCHD, then your choices shrink to Sony, JVC and Panasonic. However, 60p isn't the best for low light just because it's 60fps.

However, since you are shooting with HMI lights in total darkness anyhow, so much of the quality will come from how the camera handles blacks and the transitions. I don't think you need to go the EX1R with Nano route, especially since it doesn't do 1080p60. You said you wanted a challenge, build a custom housing for the camera that suits your needs best.

Thank you all for good advice! No the RED is to expensive... The EX1R is on the border of budget with nano and the super wide.

The XF105 sounds very nice. I guess there are some housings for it already?

// Alex

Depending on time frames have you seen the new Panny camcorder, it is still only 1/3" chips but records to various codecs all the way up to AVCIntra 100 which is a great codec. 4:2:2 or maybe even 4:4:4 I'm unsure and 100 mbits/sec.

No need for nano, depending on job you can change the bit rate. P2 is now pretty affordable. Plus the battery life on a nano on an Ex1 isn't great.

Unsure on housings at this stage, I'm sure John would chirp in they are thinking about it or anyone else.

Thank you all for good advice! No the RED is to expensive... The EX1R is on the border of budget with nano and the super wide.

The XF105 sounds very nice. I guess there are some housings for it already?

 

// Alex

As David mentioned above, I'm playing with a housing for the Canon XF100/105. Two housings actually, one purely mechanical and the other largely electronic. I've run some tests on the mechanical one and, this weekend, hope to put the electronic one through it's paces. Will write a report early next week.

Been using the XF100 topside for a few weeks and am very impressed with the results, even in low light. While the XF100 has only one sensor, because they did not try to do the 10 megapixel photo option, the actual cell size is quite large, making it receptive to low light. Cell size is a big factor in quality low light capture. The color is nice.

The main factor in my decision to go with the XF100 was the trade-off between size and quality. I travel a lot, often on small planes. I like to have a second top-side camera with a good mic so I'm not constantly taking the UW camera in and out of the housing. Two XF100s don't weigh much and can share a large camera bag. And still shoot quality footage.

Fingers crossed for some good results this weekend. Watch this space.

Regards

Peter

Yes Jon, that new Panasonic looks nice! When is it released?

Peter, I am looking forward to hear more about your underwater results...

I just noticed that the Phantom SWA is discontinued? Is there a new one on the way or is there any other super wide (104-120) that you could recommend?

// Alex