Nikon D7000 in Ikelite - lenses etc

Hi

I’ve decided to upgrade from my old Olympus C8080 in an Ikelite with 2 X DS50 strobes to a D7000. Cost constraints, my existing DS50’s and a happy relationship make Ikelite the obvious housing, notwithstanding ergonomic or other benefits from other housings. I apologise for the many questions but having studied a lot on this I’m now totally confused

I dive mostly in quite surgy water and focus speed is right up there with my requirements. My current set up is very bulky for a P&S so I’m reasonably comfortable with the size upgrade but obviously have a lot to learn about DSLR having never even owned one for land.

1 To keep costs low I’m thinking of 1 lens only at this stage and the Sigma 17-70mm F2.8-4 DC Macro OS HSM seems a good choice as I take mostly take fish portraits but like the macro ability. The Ikelite lens port site states that “Lens diameters are too large to operate in port system”. Elsewhere they state max diameter is 84mm and Sigma states Diameter X length of 79 - 88.9mm. This lens will probably require a +2 close up lens.

Does anybody have first hand knowledge of this lens in Ikelite ports? Does it fit? Which port body and dome do you use? Should/Could I just start of with a flat port?

2 For very little extra I can get the Nikon 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR AF-S DX kit lens. This lens requires a +4 close up lens. I have read here that this lens does not have much favour for underwater (my almost only camera use).

Is it worth saving the money now using this lens and upgrading later? Which port body and dome do you use?

3 Ikelite’s modular port and dome page refers to the 5510.45 Dome Assembly as an “injection moulded acrylic 4" radius dome” but elsewhere it’s referred to as 8”.

Which is correct?

4 Underwater Camera Stuff’s 5” dome seems like a nice compact solution if above dome is 8”. It’s not listed for either of these lenses.

Does anybody know if this will work for either lens?

If it won’t work my preference would be a 6” dome for compactness, how much am I giving up vs 8”?

5. Eventually I will also get a wide lens probably a Tokina 10-17mm AT-X 107 AF DX that can also use a 5” 6” or 8” dome. Why, except for cost is this lens more popular than a Tokina 11-16 f/2.8 AT-X 116 PRO DX. On paper it seems faster and here is little lost in width?

Thanks in advance

David

Hi David

Let me attempt to answer some of your questions.

1. The Sigma 17-70 is a nice lens for surface pictures and seems like it would be a good lens underwater but it has some problems. I have the older non-HSM model and have used it a bit underwater. The problem with the lens is that the throw (the distance the lens moves out) is large. It will not work in the smaller domes. If you get a dome short enough so the the 17 doesn't vignette when extended it crashes into the dome. In regards to the diameter problem the lens doesn't fit into the ikelite zoom ring. Some people have used Velcro to fix this. A flat port will really limit your zoom.

2. The 18-105 is not a well rated lens and I believe the throw is about 2.5" and the edges are soft. Check the ikelite chart for a port with the 8" dome.

3. The Ikelite’s 5510.45 Dome Assembly is listed as a 4" radius dome or 8" diameter dome.

4. The 5" dome is more compact than the 6" dome because it is modular. The 6" dome is limited to one length per dome. I don't recommend this with either dome you have listed. You will by far get the best results with a 8" dome.

5. The Tokina 10-17 is a very wide fish eye dome. The Tokinia 11-16 is a rectilinear lens. The efects are quite different.

Here is a link that will help explain the difference: http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/fisheye-hemi.htm

Here is a link for wide angle lenses: http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/digital-wi.../comparison.htm

Bonus Question: What can I get that would be a good starter lens and not be very costly?

Bonus Answer. The Nikon 18-55mm II small, inexpensive, close focus, short throw, compatible with many ports.

I would also suggest that you go with the modular system as it is more compact and flexible.

Have a nice day

Bill makes some great points. Long zoom lenses rarely work well underwater, I think 17(or 18)-55 is the most common zoom used underwater other than the Tokina 10-17, which is a great lens. For the purpose you state (fish portraits and macro) the best choices for you are the 60 or 105 macros, and which one you chose will depend on how much magnification you want.

Congrats on your new camera; the D7000 is a great body. I used Ikelite housings for several years and although I like my Aquatica better, I never had an issue with Ikelites, they served me well. On to your questions:

1 To keep costs low I’m thinking of 1 lens only at this stage and the Sigma 17-70mm F2.8-4 DC Macro OS HSM seems a good choice as I take mostly take fish portraits but like the macro ability.

My answer: I had the "older" 17-70 lens. It worked in the 6" dome, but not as well as in the 8" dome. Thing is, I was just never happy with that lens, the pictures always seemed a bit soft. In concept, it's a great idea and seems like a "catch all" lens, but in actual use it is just mediocre at everything U/W in my opinion.

2 For very little extra I can get the Nikon 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR AF-S DX kit lens.

My answer: I don't think a zoom like the 18-105 would be very useful underwater.

3 Ikelite’s modular port and dome page refers to the 5510.45 Dome Assembly as an “injection moulded acrylic 4" radius dome” but elsewhere it’s referred to as 8”.

My answer: 5510.45 is an 8" dome. I had this dome, it works very well.

4 Underwater Camera Stuff’s 5” dome seems like a nice compact solution if above dome is 8”. It’s not listed for either of these lenses.

Does anybody know if this will work for either lens?

My Answer: sorry, I don't know anything about the 5" dome.

5. Eventually I will also get a wide lens probably a Tokina 10-17mm AT-X 107 AF DX that can also use a 5” 6” or 8” dome. Why, except for cost is this lens more popular than a Tokina 11-16 f/2.8 AT-X 116 PRO DX.

My Answer: The Tokina 11-16mm is a fine lens. A Fisheye is a totally different animal and I personally prefer an FE to a Wide Angle lens U/W. On land, I use a Tokina 12-24. U/W, the Tok 10-17mm is a fantastic lens. Wide Angles are plagued with soft corners and you won't get that with an FE.

Okay, so here's my opinion on what you should buy:

1) Don't buy Ike's modular port system. The regular extensions are much cheaper and you won't find yourself really getting much benefit from the "modular" thing if you only own 2-3 U/W lenses.

2) Get the 60mm first and the short flat port first. It's economical and it is "the" fish portrait lens, plus you can do some nice macro with it. Buy a Woody's diopter and it's like having a macro and super-macro all in one. Another reason I say buy this first is because your DS-50 strobes will be great with the 60mm, but they will be barely sufficient with the large coverage required by either a W/A or FE lens.

3) Get the Tokina 10-17mm and the 8" dome. This is a super-duper combo. Split shots at the surface and believe it or not, when it's zoomed out to 17mm this lens will focus very, very close (careful, don't scratch the dome) and can get some fish portraits in addition to that shipwreck. You will find yourself wanting bigger strobes with this lens, the DS-160, some used DS-125's, Sea and sea YS-250 or the Inon Z240 for example.

4) When you get tired of these two lenses, get the 105mm VR macro lens. A bit "touchier" to shoot than the 60mm, but a fantastic lens.

With just the 60mm and the 10-17 you can get pretty much any photo you can imagine U/W. Coupled with that most excellent D7000, you will be very happy.

Take care,

JP

To use the full zoom range of the Sigma 17-70 you have to use the 8" dome. It extends to long to fit within the 6" (5503.50).

However you can use it in the 5503.50 for wide and close-up as long as you don't zoom longer than 50mm.

No dioptres needed for this lens at all.

You probably could use the flat port for better macro as long as you didn't want wide shots. I must test this myself.

The newer versions of the Sigma do fit Ike housings, just that you can't use Ikelite's spring clamp, you need to devise your own method of making the gear tube grip the lens zoom ring. I just stuck velcro on the inside of the gear tube and it works perfectly.

Trying to shoot macros with the 8" dome is frustrating, you can't get down to the sand or into tight spaces.

I just use the 8" for split levels, 6" domes for everything else except macro.

I've discussed all this stuff in more detail in my blog if you want more info.

http://apnewton.blogspot.com/

The classic trio of lenses is Tokina 10-17, Sigma 17-70, Nikon 60mm.

...

1. To keep costs low I’m thinking of 1 lens only at this stage and the Sigma 17-70mm F2.8-4 DC Macro OS HSM seems a good choice as I take mostly take fish portraits but like the macro ability. The Ikelite lens port site states that “Lens diameters are too large to operate in port system”. Elsewhere they state max diameter is 84mm and Sigma states Diameter X length of 79 - 88.9mm. This lens will probably require a +2 close up lens.

Does anybody have first hand knowledge of this lens in Ikelite ports? Does it fit? Which port body and dome do you use? Should/Could I just start of with a flat port?...

3. Ikelite’s modular port and dome page refers to the 5510.45 Dome Assembly as an “injection moulded acrylic 4" radius dome” but elsewhere it’s referred to as 8”.

Which is correct?

4. Underwater Camera Stuff’s 5” dome seems like a nice compact solution if above dome is 8”. It’s not listed for either of these lenses.

Does anybody know if this will work for either lens?

If it won’t work my preference would be a 6” dome for compactness, how much am I giving up vs 8”?...

Thanks in advance

David

David: I went thru the same query with Ike re: your Q#1 above. They told me it wouldn't fit even though the specs said it would, and their reason was something to the effect of it didn't matter just what the dimeter of the lens was so much as the diameter of the zoom ring. Others have indicated it will work without their clamp, you have to just come up with some other way to engage the sleeve. My Sigma 8-16mm did the same thing: the 2 'ridges' inside the standard Ike zoom sleeve/gear will bite into the rubber grippy parts of the lens zoom ring just fine, you just had to notch them back a hair so they only bit where the zoom ring was and not up at the similar grippy slots in the non-rotating lens mount area. Basically, if it will fit you may just have to figure out your own zoom coupling method to the plastic gear sleeve.

Based on Ike's commentary I found an old 17-70 I could buy used (non HSM, non-OS, DC Macro) but I bought their 5503.80 6" port vs. the 8" system. The lens will just barely not crash the port at full extension with no diopter or filter, but does vignette a little at the wide end. Put on a diopter and you lose a little long end as it will crash at about 60mm, but because of the dipoter effect the vignetting is less at the wide end. Of course...so is sharpness, conceivably. I think I can live with that...with the diopter the effective usage range is something like 22mm - 65mm (factoring in the diopter/dome limit but not the camera sensor crop, which is long enough for macro-y shots although (per johnspierce) I certainly wouldn't expect true macro sharpness. If you want full use of that lens, you probably are looking at the 8" dome with some extension...and then you can get rid of the diopter too. (Note that per Sigma's specs the newer 17-70 HSM OS is slightly longer than the old DC Macro and DC Macro HSM (non-OS) versions at 3.5 vs. 3.2 inches...but they don't provide "extended" dimensions for the newest version so I can't be sure that the extension is the same.)

Re: Q#3, all domes are 6" (molded, fixed lengths) or 8" (modular). The 8" is a big dome to travel with, but not undoable. I did find I had to wrap the dome in a wetsuit and put it with the checked scuba gear (gulp!), it would not fit in my camera carryon (a Lowepro Vertex 300AW, biggest 'legal' carryon backpack they make...with legal being a bit of a misnomer once you add the straps and pack it so it's bulging. Still, I haven't been prevented from carrying it on...yet.

Re: Q#4, read blibecap's reply, as it's his dome. He has the most knowledge of it. I can say I bought that dome for the Sigma 8-16mm and so far (a couple of fit checks and pool tests, haven't really "dove" with it) I'm very impressed. A dome like that is really designed for the wider angle shots; I don't think it would help for the typical shooting range you mentioned.

I have a Nikon D300 in an Ikelite housing so it is equivalent to your planned system with respect to lenses and ports. I use a Nikkor 18-55mm f3.5-5.6G as my all purpose lens. It is inexpensive and yet is plenty sharp and focuses well. I use it in the 5503.50 6" dome port with a +5 diopter. This lets me get magnifications up to 1:2.5. It is great for a wide range of subjects and I think will do better than the Sigma 17-70mm.

I also use the Nikkor 60mm f/2.8D (the older lens) for macro work. For a dedicated macro dive I use the 5502.41 flat port. Most of my diving is in Sydney and the visibility is not always great so I sometimes use the 60mm in the 5503.50 dome port with a +4 diopter. I can still get to 1:1 (albeit with more difficulty with lighting) but it decreases the port to subject distance so with larger subjects I don't have as much water in between.

Here's an old blog entry that might help: Under Water Lens Use.

I second Rocha's and ATJ's suggestion of the Nikon18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G ED II AF-S DX lens. You should be able to get a used one for about $100 on e-bay. I recently tested mine under water for the first time and was pleasantly surprised with the results. It's neither macro nor wide angle but a good medium-range lens and will enable you to take a lot of nice shots. I got a good used #5503.50 dome port for $125 by placing a want-to-buy ad in the Classifieds section of this forum. You will also need a 52mm +4 diopter (close-up lens). A decent one will cost you $10-15 from Hong Kong on e-bay (don't buy one of the cheapest ones on offer from China). Your DS 50's will work fine with this set-up (I used a DS 50 and a DS 51 for my test).

When you can afford it, a 60mm Micro-Nikkor is the next obvious choice. Your DS 50's will work fine with that lens too. When you feel ready for wide angle, the Tokina 10-17mm fisheye would be my preferred choice but you will need two DS 125's or DS 160's for that and two used DS125's would mean an outlay of about $1000 (even more for DS 160's).

I shoot a 10/17 in a flared flat port. I don't believe that Ikelite makes such an animal and the idea of shooting macro in a dome doesn't sound all that easy. I would simply get a 60mm Nikon lens and a flat port.

Thanks for the all the replies, feeling realy stupid that I did not see the 4" radius dome is the 8" dome . So now I'm thinking of saving on the lens and getting the Nikon18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G ED II AF-S DX or the VR version. What if I the get the dome as well a flat port and a Woody's diopter? As you can see I'm still desperate for some flexability from my lens. Focus distance, without a diopter is 28cm but a +2 is recommended for the dome so would be available for the flat port. Anybody got a link to calculate the new min focus distance? Is the flexability given by the Woody on a flatport worth it or should I just put a +2 inside?

So now I'm thinking of saving on the lens and getting the Nikon18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G ED II AF-S DX or the VR version.

Go for the VR version (which is the current version of the lens). You will appreciate VR if you start doing video as it really helps remove the jerky handheld look.

What if I the get the dome as well a flat port and a Woody's diopter?

If you mean for the 18-55mm, I don't a flat port would work well for that lens and you'd probably get a lot of vignetting at 18mm (and maybe before then).

As you can see I'm still desperate for some flexability from my lens. Focus distance, without a diopter is 28cm but a +2 is recommended for the dome so would be available for the flat port. Anybody got a link to calculate the new min focus distance? Is the flexability given by the Woody on a flatport worth it or should I just put a +2 inside?

I use a +5 with my 18-55mm in a 6" dome port and I can get some macro shots, such as nudibranchs. It is not as good as a 60mm in a flat port but means you may get a shot you otherwise wouldn't.

If you mean for the 18-55mm, I don't a flat port would work well for that lens and you'd probably get a lot of vignetting at 18mm (and maybe before then).

I have never done a dive that excluded wide angle with my P&S though I have done shark and Manta dives where I did not do any macro. I'm hoping to create a cheaper/flexable alternative to a fixed 60mm by having the flat port option when I know I'll be doing a macro dive but still have a bit of flexability (even if limited) for things a bit larger, hence the Woody's. Maybe I should just get the dome for now and see how happy I am.

I've purchased the D7000 and Nikon18-55 lens. Ikelite housing hopefully arriving in time to spend some time in the pool on the weekend. Thanks for all the advice.