Browsing and color management

Hi gang,

As a test to try to help Eric with a Mac Safari browser bug, I have downloaded Firefox (formerly Firebird) browser.

Unlike Safari, Firefox doesn't use color management. I noticed, while using this browser, that some of my images posted here look BADLY skewed (I work in a closed-loop color managed system).

So - I am looking for some feedback to see what the rest of you are seeing:

Does the image above have a strong magenta cast to it, and does it look obviously as though there is something wrong with it, or does it appear to be "normal" to you?

This image has some very strong shadows in it, which should appear solid black to you.

Please let me know, as this may force me to rethink my workflow (significantly) for posting images on the web....

While I don't intend to seem boastful in any way, this image is one of my best photographs I have taken... There's a considerable amount of detail around and in the octopus's eye, and on my monitor this image looks fantastic in Safari with my CMS profile applied, and it looks absolutely terrible in Firefox without the profile.

I'm not looking for a critique of the image, but rather whether this image appears on your screen as a high-quality photo, or something with some obvious funkiness.

THANK YOU for the feedback!!!

-david

If any of you are especially interested in helping me research this, would you mind also having a look at:

http://www.pugetsounddiving.com/webgallery...date/index.html

... and click on some of the images to see the larger sized versions?

Do these images have any unnatural color cast to your eyes? Mine all appear to have a magenta tint in Firefox.

This is very troublesome to me...

I may have to use a completely different set of CMS profiles for working on images for the web vs. when I am making prints, and that's not the way things should work.

It's interesting, because I didn't have these issues with Photoshop 7, but Photoshop CS seems to have some different behaviors with CMS profiles using "Save for Web".

Seems as though I may have to remove "Photoshop Guru" from my sig until I can figure this out.... dammit.

Thanks so much in advance for your feedback!

-david

Sorry David,

you are right the pic of the octopus looks absolutely wrong to me. Magenta is all over the place.

The pictures on your homepage instead look very good. But I enlarged only a few... No wrong colours noticeable.

I use IE 6

Yes, it definitely has a violet tint that I don't expect to see in this Octo (It's E. dolphini, right?).

I'm using IE5 on a non-calibrated monitor at work.

Cheers

James

I would say that the image above looks too magenta and the blacks look highly crushed. On your website, the thumbs look pretty natural but the images look magenta and too bright with a black level that looks set too low (blacks are gray). I'm using Firebird 0.7 on WinXP on a VP2290 calibrated to D65 and 2.2. sRGB and Adobe RGB are both D65 and 2.2. Mac does not typically use 2.2 though.

I thought CS converted to sRGB when using "Save to Web". Is that true?

James, I thought it converted to sRGB as well, but this is not the case, apparently (at least not by default).

I will continue to work on this and will report back with my findings.... thanks so very much!

With apologies in advance for the size, does this image look different than the first one?

Believe it or not, they look the same (with the exception of the size) on my monitor using Safari. I *think* that one of them has an embedded profile, and one of them does not (this second one). If they look the same to you, I have bigger problems than I thought I had.

Thanks again, and please let me know.

-david

Wow, big difference!

Hummph.

Okay, so apparently the default for Photoshop CS is embed a custom profile if one is used in the document (I use an Eye-One Pro from Gretag Macbeth to generate custom profiles for my scanners, monitors and printers).

These JPEG files, of course, look fine on my system, and look fine in Safari, which utilizes the same color profiles through ColorSync.

If, in Photoshop CS through "Save For Web", I select any other setting besides "Use Document Profile", the image looks screwed up the same way it does in the browser (e.g., if I select "Windows Standard" or "Uncompensated".)

What is odd is that Photoshop doesn't automatically convert the colors to the sRGB space for web use, nor have I found (yet) an option for doing so.

I will have to rethink my workflow now for using my custom profiles. Dammit.

:/

Any ideas anyone?

Thanks again for having a look!

-d

David, the second one looks much better. More natural although those Octos can change color in an instant. I was going to mention that when you posted the oversized Octo image in the Photo comp. It looked great, then the second one had the above mentioned problem. I think you can edit the picture url and re-size the better one for submission.

Rand

David:

I am running Safari on OS 10.2

The first picture has a magenta cast, the second one is fine.

I went to your website. The thumbs are fine. The full size photos all have a magenta cast. If I put the thumb and the photo side by side there is a big difference.

Hi David,

Linda Cline here... Hugo definitely looks off in the first shot, very magenta. I noticed it right away, since I know what he's supposed to look like, and have seen your excellent prints of him. Second one looks fine. I've just calibrated using an Eye-One as well. You are the guru, but I use my own actions for saving to web, which convert to sRGB, resize and sharpen lightly. The large size images in your most recent gallery also seem to have a bit too much magenta.

Please let us know what you figure out. Color management can be so humbling! (even to the most guruish, apparently!)

:roll:

My friend who uses Safari had this same problem recently. Might be a useful read -- especially the comments.

I always convert my images to sRGB (part of my output action) before saving for web (with no profile tagged). That is supposedly closest to the non-managed crappy displays that the vast majority of the web browsing world use. Since neither IE and Mozilla pay attention to color profiles, you have to convert to something ... not too far out of the ordinary to have any hopes of images looking right for the majority.

I guess I should also be tagging with sRGB so Safari users don't have the generic images interpreted in their screen color profile. Maybe Photoshop CS is doing that already.

Thanks for the comments everyone (and hi Linda! Looking forward to seeing you again!)

Thanks for the pointer to your buddy's blog, Eric. Very interesting reading.

For my purposes, I am going to have to take a similar approach that you have outlined, which is to create an output action for moving images to the web.

In my opinion, this is a ridiculous step to have to take, and Adobe has really screwed up by not allowing conversion as part of the "Save as..." or "Save for web..." features.

It also means I am going to have to use multiple CMS settings that are optimized for the workflow I am currently in (e.g., web vs. print).

This totally defeats the purpose of an effective color management system. It seems to me that in the Color settings menu item, Adobe now needs to add another option: one for web output. This would allow the use of a variety of profiles (currently the color settings allow only for CMYK, RGB and Greyscale - which you would think would be adequate, except most modern inkjet printers use the RGB colorspace, as does the web, but the two are in obvious conflict in my workflow).

I am headed to Photoshop World next week in San Francisco and will make some inquiries of some of my Adobe buddies while I am there...

Again, thanks everyone for checking this out!!!

-david